This thread is being created to collect information on the D16A1 swap into a first generation Civic/CRX (D16A1 1.6 16V DOHC PGM-FI 1590 113hp@6250rpm 99tq@5500rpm '86-'89 Integra (USA)) The information given here will be sorted and put into another thread. I will then request that the thread be made Sticky as well as locked to be used as a FAQ on this subject. This thread will not become the FAQ, it is simply gathering information. What I have rite now is:

http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/SCC-ZC-Article
from lxndr

and a site I ran across a while ago
http://www.muller.net/sonny/crx/

NEW SITE: great info for those going from carb DX to FI
http://the-compound.com/dylan/crx

Carb ZC into a 4WD 3G Wagon (yes, a stock carb'd ZC)
http://www.effinmotorworks.com/Zeno_Writeup.htm

If anyone has more information or would like to make some suggestions please feel free to post them. To my knowledge this is the most cost effective swap that can be done on the first generation Civic/CRX which is why it is so popular, if you have another swap that you think is on par (ie. cost and work proportional) feel free to post that as well. Pease do not post suggestions on next generation swaps or anything that will not directly mount into a 71 to 87 engine compartment without custom engine mounts, for that is not the point of this FAQ, the point is to provide resource for the the D16A1 or equivalent swap because of its popularity.

Thanks.

http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/westech.html
http://home.wideopenwest.com/~tschmidt/
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/9855/87crx/

An easy swap that anyone can do to get a little more power out of thier stock Civic/CRX SI is to replace their ECU with an '86-'87 Integra ECU. The Integra ECU will plug right in to the SI wiring without any modifications. The benefit of this swap is that the Integra ECU is programed for performance and you will eliminate the Civic rev limiter. Also, when you decide to put in a D16A1 you will already have the ECU installed (although the D16A1 will run using the stock SI ECU). Be sure to pick up an ECU designed for use with your transmission (manual or automatic).

Note:
Do NOT use an ECU from an '88-'89 Integra as this ECU is designed to be used with a VSS and is therefore not compatible with the SI. The stock SI motor will confuse the '88-'89 Integra ECU causing it to run poorly.

Edit:
THE ECU IS NOT WORTH SWAPPING WITHOUT HAVING OTHER PERFORMANCE MODIFICATIONS!!!

Check this out for info on brake swapping.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=197243

yeah, that'd be a good thing to include as well, the two kind of go together

Lowering an '84-'87 Civic/CRX (with stock motor and suspension):

The front is really easy, you don't even need to jack up the car if you know where the adjustment nut is! If you only need about an inch, just loosen the height adjustment nut. Doing this brought the height of my '86 CRX from about 24" to 22 and 7/8". Before you take any measurements roll the car back and forth and bounce it to settle the suspension. Measure squarely through the center of the wheel to the lower edge of the wheel well. Make sure that the car is on a flat surface with properly inflated tires and a full gas tank.

I would not recommend going any lower than about an inch at the front without taking out the torsion springs. 1 and 1/8" was as far as I could go and still have enough threads left on the adjustment nut to feel safe.

To lower the car more than an inch at the front you will need to remove the torsion springs. To do this you will need to set the front of the car on jack stands and place a jack under the spindle of the side you are working on. Then remove the metal dust cap at the rear and the rubber cap from the front of the torsion springs. Remove the rear spring clip, then using a heavy hammer and a large heavy punch or heavy round rod (I use a lug wrench with the bent end cut off), pound the torsion bars forward about 3/4" and remove the front spring clip. Then spray the splines with lubricant and pound the springs back untill they fall out. You may need to adjust the height if the jack untill you relieve the tension on the spring.

Next you will need to grind one spline off of the rear of the torsion spring next to the spline key. Grind the spline to the right of the key on the passenger side and to the left of the key for the drivers side then lube up the splines and install them in the reverse order from which you took them out. You may need to adjust the height of the jack in order to get the splines to align. Make sure that they go in one spline off from their stock location.

Tighten the height adjustment nut all the way! Once you get the car on the ground loosen the nut untill you get the desired height.

You can grind 2 or 3 splines if you are truly insane!

No matter how far you lower your car, it is a good idea to have the front end aligned when you are done. If you need a little more camber you can elongate the strut mounting holes toward the inside of the car, and if you need a little more caster you can pull the crossmember forward. Also, swapping in the lower arms from an '86-'89 Integra will give you about 1 degree of negative camber.

You should also consider replacing your struts with something adjustable like Tokico Illuminas, especially if you are planning to go really low.

At the rear you can just cut the springs or use aftermarket springs. You won't even need a spring compressor to remove them. If you go with the cutting method, one coil will usually give you about 1' drop, but do some trial and error before you start cutting too much off your coils since you can't add the coils back on. I've also heard that you can use Civic wagon springs in the back for about 1' drop, but I have not verified this. I have been using Tokico progressive springs. Tokico says that these springs will lower your car between 1"-1.5", but they really only lower it about .5", so I just cut the springs with a cut off wheel until I got the desired ride height. You can also get progressive springs from Eibach and adjustable springs from Ground Control.

You will need to find an adjustable panhard bar if you go any lower than about 1"-1.5" at the rear, or you can cut and weld yours to the appropriate length.

Note:
You can heat the rear springs with a torch and just let the car drop but the car will handle poorly, I wouldn't recommend it!

Regarding the D16a1 ECU.
It will not improve power. Many people think its a cheap way to make ur car faster, but that is not true. Heres why;
Your car will run rich and you might have idling problems. The only advantage is the higher rev limit, but it is not worth it. In fact, your car will feel sluggish, and foget about it being smog legal.

Taklen from RPR
"In most other Hondas and many other makes of cars, a "hotter" ECU or adding a "chip" to the stock ECU will give a more performance oriented ignition curve. In the D15A3, the ignition is not controlled by the ECU so this is not a factor. The early Honda/Acura ECUs are only concerned with rev limits and injector metering.
higher RPM limits with a stock bottom end and stock cam is asking for a thrown rod and no extra power. The stock cam profile hits peaks power just before the stock rev limit and there is no advantage in going past that.

And the Integra ECU "thinks" it is talking to 245cc injectors in the D16A1 rather than the 195cc injectors in the D15A3. This leads to a very rich condition that does not make any more power.

The bottom line- As much as we would love to "just plug in power" to the D15A3, it just aint gonna happen that easily. Stick to the stock ECU and concentrate on making power the old fashioned way... get more air and fuel in the CORRECT RATIO
in and out of the cylinders."
(cbstdscott from RPR)

This is what i have so far:


Question: How to perform a D16A1 swap into a first generation Civic/CRX
(D16A1 1.6 16V DOHC PGM-FI 1590 113hp@6250rpm 99tq@5500rpm '86-'89 Integra (USA))

Answer: (off site)
http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/SCC-ZC-Article
http://www.muller.net/sonny/crx/
http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/westech.html
http://home.wideopenwest.com/~tschmidt/
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/9855/87crx/


Question: How to swap '86-'89 Integra brake system into a '84-'87 Civic/CRX

Answer:
What you'll need is the brake system from an '86-'89 Integra. An '86-'89 Integra is mechanically the same as an '84-'87 civic and most parts will bolt right on.(note, this swap will only work on ‘84-’87 Civics and CRX’s, it will not work on ‘88-’91 Civic/CRX). You can even get cross drilled rotors for this system if you want, but for a street car, stock rotors will work best (more surface area).

The parts needed from '86-'89 Integra:

Master cylinder (don't bother with the booster, it won't fit on the Civic)
Proportioning valve
Front calipers
Front rotors
complete rear disc assembly
Rear brake hoses
E-brake cables
Rear caliper mounting bracket to rear axle bolts (4 per side)
(get the whole rear axle with a complete brake assembly if you can)

Since you will be putting a lot of effort into swapping these parts, I would recommend rebuilding them or at the very least, have your rotors turned.

Tools needed:

32mm socket
10mm tubing wrench
Breaker bar or pneumatic impact wrench
Torque wrench
The usual tools (sockets, open/box end wrenches etc.)
Repair manual (Civic)

Here's what you'll need to do:

Starting with the master cylinder.
You will need to do a little modification to the mounting flange in order to get it to fit. The round cylinder (barrel) on the back of the master cylinder mounting flange is about 1/4" too large in diameter to fit into the booster, so you will need to grind down the "barrel" a little (not difficult). You can then seal the master to the booster using RTV. Another option that I have heard of, is using the master cylinder from an '87 Prelude. Apparently this master will fit on the Civic booster without modification (I have not tried this yet, so I can't tell you if this really works or not, but as long as the Prelude booster has a 7/8" bore, in theory it should work).

Replace the Civic brake proportioning valve with the Integra unit.

Next, Jack up the entire body of the car SECURELY!!!!! Support the rear axle and remove the wheels.

The front brakes are really easy, just replace the Civic parts with the Integra parts.

The rear brakes are a little more involved, especially the passenger side (assuming you are in the U.S.). Before you get started removing parts, remove the bolts that hold the bottom of the rear struts in place, this way the torsion on the rear axle will not be fighting against you.

The rear drivers side:

Remove the old drum, hub, brake mounting plate, E-brake cable and brake hose from the Civic. What you will be left with is a spindle and four bolts. You will need to remove these bolts and replace them with the same bolts from the Integra. The reason for this is because the Integra caliper mounting bracket is much thicker than the Civic brake shoe plate.

Next dismantle the driver side brake set up from the Integra. Remove the caliper, rotor, hub, dust shield and caliper mounting bracket until all that you are left with is a spindle. Toss the Integra spindle and trailing arm in the trash pile since you will not be able to use them (the Integra trailing arms are shorter than the Civic arms).

Install the four bolts (mentioned earlier) from the Integra axle into the Civic axle, then install the, caliper mounting bracket, dust shield, hub, rotor, and caliper.

The rear passenger side:

Remove all parts from the Civic the same as the drivers side. The only difficult part is dismantling the Integra parts. To do this you will need to break apart the Integra carrier bearing. This is because the caliper mounting plate is mounted behind the bearing on the Integra (not so with the Civic).

Back to the Civic.

Remove the four bolts around the spindle. You will need to rotate the spindle in order to get them out, as you remove them you will bend the dust flange a little but don't worry about it just bend it back into shape with a flat screwdriver after you have installed the Integra bolts.

Next, install the Integra bolts, straighten the dust flange and assemble this side the same as the drivers side.

Torque down the spindle nuts and stake them.

Install the Integra rear brake hoses:
They are a little longer than the Civic hoses were So you will need to be a little creative when installing them. Mine ended up in sort of an "S" shape.

Install the Integra E-brake cables:
You will need to use the Civic mounting tabs, so carefully cut the rubber tabs off of the integra cables. These cables are also a little longer than the Civic cables, but you can still route them the same way. The only difference is that I ended up crossing them over underneath the car and installing the left cable to the right side of the E-brake handle and the right cable to the left side, just to take up a little excess length.

Next look around the car and make sure that everything is installed, tightened and bolted down (like the rear strut bolts and hub nut dust covers etc.).

Bleed the brakes.

Adjust the E-brake

Then install the wheels and take it for a test drive!

Note:
It is very important that you DO NOT mix the Civic and Integra brake parts. For example, don't swap the rear disc brakes onto your Civic but leave the stock Civic calipers on the front. Or, DO NOT swap all the disc brakes on to your Civic without swapping the Master cylinder and proportioning valve. This is because the amount of pressure needed to operate the Integra 4 wheel disc brake system is FAR MORE than the amount of pressure required to operate the stock Civic drum system. The Integra brake system was designed and balanced at the factory for safe operation, so don't mess with it unless you have a thorough understanding of fluid dynamics!

Two more notes from the author (lxndr (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=149942)):
You will need to use 14" or larger wheels in order to clear the discs, and you will need to disconnect the passenger side trailing arm so that you can rotate the spindle.

This swap took me one weekend to complete. This is because I had no guidance at all (other than rumors on the internet), and it turned out that I needed a couple more parts from the junk yard so I had to go back the next day and pull them. Don't worry, if you get all of the parts on my list you'll have everything you need!


Question: How to lower an '84-'87 Civic/CRX (with stock motor and suspension):

Answer:
The front is really easy, you don't even need to jack up the car if you know where the adjustment nut is! If you only need about an inch, just loosen the height adjustment nut. Doing this brought the height of my '86 CRX from about 24" to 22 and 7/8". Before you take any measurements roll the car back and forth and bounce it to settle the suspension. Measure squarely through the center of the wheel to the lower edge of the wheel well. Make sure that the car is on a flat surface with properly inflated tires. This procedure took me about 20 mins.

I would not recommend going any lower than about an inch at the front without taking out the torsion springs. 1 and 1/8" was as far as I could go and still have enough threads left on the adjustment nut to feel safe.

Also, if you are planning to do a D16A1 motor swap, you can still find stiffer torsion springs (24mm or 27mm) or you can also swap in an '86-'89 Integra cross member with bigger springs (+ power steering).

To lower the car more than an inch at the front you will need to remove the torsion springs. To do this you will need to set the front of the car on jack stands and place a jack under the spindle of the side you are working on. Then remove the metal dust cap at the rear and the rubber cap from the front of the torsion springs and use a dot of paint to make a reference point on the torsion tube and spring. Remove the rear spring clip, then using a heavy hammer and a large heavy punch or heavy round rod, pound the torsion bars forward about 3/4" and remove the front spring clip. Then spray the salines with lubricant and pound the springs back until they fall out. you may need to adjust the height if the jack until you relieve some tension on the spring (lower is better).

Next you will need to grind one spline off of the rear of the torsion spring next to the spline key. Grind the spline to the right of the key on the passenger side and to the left of the key for the drivers side then lube up the splines and install them in the reverse order from which you took them out. You may need to adjust the height of the jack in order to get the splines to align. Make sure that they go in one spline off from their stock location (reference mark becomes helpful).

Tighten the height adjustment nut all the way! Once you get the car on the ground loosen the nut until you get the desired height.

You can grind 2 or 3 splines if you are truly insane!

No matter how far you lower your car, it is a good idea to have the front end aligned when you are done. If you need a little more camber you can elongate the strut mounting holes toward the inside of the car, and if you need a little more caster you can pull the crossmember forward.

You should also consider replacing your struts with something adjustable like Tokico Illuminas, especially if you are planning to go really low.

At the rear you can just cut the springs or use aftermarket springs. You won't even need a spring compressor to remove them. If you go with the cutting method, one coil will usually give you about 1' drop, but do some trial and error before you start cutting too much off your coils since you can't add the coils back on. I've also heard that you can use Civic wagon springs in the back for about 1' drop, but I have not verified this. I have been using Tokico progressive springs. Tokico says that these springs will lower your car between 1"-1.5", but they really only lower it about .5", so I just cut the springs with a cut off wheel until I got the desired ride height. You can also get progressive springs from Eibach and adjustable springs from Ground Control.

You will need to find an adjustable panhard bar if you go any lower than about 1"-1.5" at the rear. or you can cut and weld yours to the appropriate length.

If you need stiffer sway bars, you can find both front and rear bars on an '86-'89 Integra, or use the front sway bar from an '84-'87 Civic wagon 4x4.

Note:
You can heat the rear springs with a torch and just let the car drop but the car will handle poorly, I wouldn't recommend it!

Hey CRXdan,

I agree with you, a stock D15A3 should never reach it's rev limit, ESPECIALLY since by now most '84-'87 Civic/CRXs will have at least 150k miles on them.

I admit, I am not running this ECU on my current CRX SI simply because my engine is reaching the end of it's miles, so it would be pointless to do any modifications (I'm just waiting until I have some time to do the traditional D16A1-ZC swap).

I am not trying to prove you wrong but, I DID do this swap on a previous SI, and it seemed to improve things, albeit marginally (I never claimed that this swap would add signifigant power)
Hmmm... Maybe just thinking that my car was performing better made it happen?
Also, I did not have problems with emissions, but I live in WA and our emission standards are not as strict as in other states.

You are also right... There is no 1 thing that you can bolt on that will magicaly give you horsepower, it's all part of a balanced system.

Thank you for your input. I'll do some more research and maybe I'll even put this ECU (closely followed by some Integra injectors) in my current SI just to see how long it will take for my engine to blow up!

I'll post the results.

Results:
NOT WORTH THE EFFORT.

Hey everyone, so...i dont know a lot about the D series engines, so i hear you all saying that only a D16a1 will fit, is there any differance between a D16a1 and a D16y7? would that still bolt up or.....is it just the a1? THANKS!

D16Y7 1.6 16V SOHC PGM-FI 1590 106hp@6200rpm 103tq@4600rpm '96-'00 Civic CX/DX/LX (USA)

generally speaking all honda's from before 87 have the same engine mounts and everything after that have differant ones, except the Acura Integra which didn't switch over till 89, so that means that all D series engines except the d16a1 wil not fit w/o custom mounts, so the d16y7 will not fit

ok, thats Very good to know, thanks a lot! this will be my LAST question.....what springs/struts will fit on this car? what would you suggest? i dont want this thing to flip if i take a corner, i want it to hug pretty good, but i also want a relatively smooth ride....any suggestions :iceslolan thanks !

B20A5 2.0 16V DOHC PGM-FI 1955 110hp@5500rpm 114tq@4500rpm '87 -'91 Prelude 2.0 Si

does anyone have any info on this engine? does it have the old mounting set up?

Hey aqueous5,

How will you be using your car, how fast do you want to corner and how fat is your wallet?

I'll assume that this is a street driven car and that is why you want a relatively smooth ride. Keep in mind that a performance oriented suspension will stiffen your ride.

Ultimitely you should use Tokoco Illumina struts because they are 5 way adjustable. This means you can tune them according to the feel you want and the way you drive.

Pick up some progressive springs for the rear and leave the stock springs in the front.

Lower the car about an inch to improve your center of gravity.

This is the formula that I am using for my street driven car because like you, I still want to be able to drive the car with relative comfort. I didn't want to lower my current car more than an inch for a couple of reasons: 1) I didn't want to have to do too many modifications to my car like cutting and welding my panhard bar, 2) I don't like bottoming out or scraping bottom on speed bumps, and 3) I don't want to waste my money on parts designed for use on a race car only to use them on a street car. With this formula I can take a 90 degree turn on a two lane road at about 40 mph (if I want to) without breaking traction and still maintain a comfortable ride. If you need a little more cornering ability add some sway bars an adjust the front suspension for more camber, and if you need even more than that, get some larger springs for the front and add some adjustable springs to the rear then lower the car a little more.

Keep the rear a little stiffer than the front to avoid understeer.

Also, you will get a little more cornering ability with a low profile tire and a little more comfort with a tire that has a taller sidewall.

In the past I've gotten all excited and blown all sorts of money on race parts for a car that would never see the track. What I found out is that race parts don't work very well on the street. You'll end up with broken parts an a car that is uncomfortable to drive. My advise to anyone building a car is to build a car with parts designed for the way you are REALLY going to use the car, not the way that you drive your car in your dreams. You'll be much happier in the long run.


...but then again, who asked me?

ttt

ttt

ttt

ttt to you to buddy!!!!(whatever that means...)
there was a question that you asked about the prelude engine.... some old dude is selling me the hole car for 100$...(it looks like a hatch back cause its round at all 4 corners... and has no windows..) the car is still running...thats good.....im still compering the mounts but so far it looks like it will fit with no mods....but the front motor mount is looking kind of off......i will let you know if it fits.....

to the top

oh!!! ok....(i thought it ment somthing bad..... sorry...) 8--D

Good to know...
I was wondering the same thing, I came up with all sorts of ideas like: tell the truth, tickle tittilating tits, terrible tummy trouble, time to trash, tough to translate, try to type, etc.

i think it's in a FAQ on the board smewhere, thats where i got it from

How much harder does a swap into a carberated 1987 4dr civic become if I want to use a B16 series motor?

where can I find info on this?

a lot harder, custom motor mounts and carb to FI conversion. try searching around http://www.redpepperracing.com/forums/

bump

ttt

bump

good question on the d16a1, will a turbo kit from d16a8 or a6 bolt on to the head?

i don't think so, the intake side might be similar but i'm pretty sure the exhaust side is different, it shares the same bolt pattern as the 84-87 civic. lxndr will probably have some more specific info for you tho.

good question on the d16a1, will a turbo kit from d16a8 or a6 bolt on to the head?

Good news!

Any D-series exhaust manifold will fit on the D16A1 with a little help from a Dremel, EXCEPT for the EW/D15 84-87 Civic/CRX manifolds. The EW/D15 manifolds are siamesed between the 1,2 and 3,4 exhaust ports where the D16 uses individual ports.

Regarding the D16a1 ECU.
It will not improve power. Many people think its a cheap way to make ur car faster, but that is not true. Heres why;
Your car will run rich and you might have idling problems. The only advantage is the higher rev limit, but it is not worth it. In fact, your car will feel sluggish, and foget about it being smog legal.
(cbstdscott from RPR)


OK, I have finally installed an '86 Integra ECU in my '86 CRX SI...





Here's what I did:

When I replaced my head gasket, I decided to also swap in a rebuilt head since my old one had a bad valve guide. After I got everything together, adjusted and timed, I decided to start playing around with the extra ECU's that I have laying around.

I took it for a test drive with the stock '86 ECU, I drove it normally around town and took it on the freeway for a while then got off the freeway and started driving like a maniac (safely)! I turned around and punched it to get back on the freeway in order to take some mental notes on performance.

I then swapped in an '85 ECU and took it for the same test drive with no noticeable difference in performance.

Then I swapped in the '86 Integra ECU and noticed no signifigant difference in performance while doing the "normal " test drive around town, but when I punched it to get on the freeway, there was definitely a difference. The car definitely felt more responsive in the mid to high end.

In doing this swap I found that the '86 integra ECU plugged directly in to the CRX wiring with NO modifications. There are NO idling problems and there is definitely NO lag or "sluggish" feeling. I did have to adjust the idle and re-check the timing after installing the Integra ECU because after installation the RPMs shot up to about 2,000. I have not yet checked my plugs to see it the car is running rich, I figure I'll drive it for a week or two then check. Also, I need to get an emissions report at the end of December so I'll find out then if it passes. I have not installed the Integra injectors because I see no point in doing so right now.

No, I did not Dyno the car after swapping the ECU's so I can not provide any numbers or verify that the car is actually performing better, but it seems to, and right now that's good enough for me.

Next I plan to fabricate an adapter plate so that I can swap in a larger throttle body. From there I'll see if I need to swap in different injectors or a fuel pressure regulator. I'm also toying with the Idea of regrinding my cam and installing my turbo system with a 2" exhaust. I found an exhaust manifold from a Civic 1500 S that seems like it will make an excellent turbo manifold!


Edit:
DO NOT USE a California emissions friendly ECU! You won't be happy with the results!


Update:
The car would not pass emissions with the Integra ECU so I put the stock ECU back in.

sweet! cause im getting an old 86 crx si from my cousin for free ! hes tired of it and he has too many project cars. It needs to have the injectors cleaned and fenders. CHEAP PLASTIC GRRRR.... and i know a guy with an old 86 integra sitting at his shop he wants to get rid of. got rear ended.... What a sweet situation if u ask me, but the d16 im going to take some time and rebuild it and drop some 8.9 comp ratio pistons and some higher lift cams. This is still far off but dreaming never killed ne one... well maybe. One other good question, how hard would it be to retro fit 88-91 after market fenders? but im stoked... tired of not having a running car... piece of crap 88 nova. tried to get a fuse for the efi, cant get it ne more ...

(I had said lude but I was thinking of my brothers 86 lude DX)

One other good question, how hard would it be to retro fit 88-91 after market fenders?

Slightly off topic...

'88-'91 fenders won't work because the body contours are completely different. Also, the front end on a 2g CRX is several inches shorter than a 1g. You would have to swap the entire front clip and do lots of metal or fiberglass fabrication around the doors. About the only thing that interchanges between the 2g and 1g CRX are the wheels.

Slightly off topic...

'88-'91 fenders won't work because the body contours are completely different. Also, the front end on a 2g CRX is several inches shorter than a 1g. You would have to swap the entire front clip and do lots of metal or fiberglass fabrication around the doors. About the only thing that interchanges between the 2g and 1g CRX are the wheels.



Yea its as i figured, i got the thing today, its needing some serious work but nothing too major. I was wrong it was an 85 i didnt get to see the front of it, but its still an si. The cool thing is the spedo goes to 140 which is really fast for that car. (Eventhough it wont touch that speed stock) But i need a new front bumper and bumper cover, fenders, and fascia. I can make the fascia easy and make it look cool. The car didnt get in an accident its just the pieces fricken shattered. but the inside is practicaly gutted and it doesnt have a moon roof cause the previous owner b4 my cousin rolled it! It rather difficult finding fenders for that car. Any suggestions?

Any suggestions?

Become very good friends with the people at your local junk yard.

P.S. Start an new thread so that you can draw more attention to your questions and we can keep this one on topic.

Car runs a little rich (still acceptable) with the Integra ECU. I found a hunk of 3/4" aluminum to make an adapter for the throttle body with, I'll see what happens next.


Update:
Never got around to making the adapter. I swapped in a D16A1 instead.

Dylan (can't remember his user name) just finished a d16 swap and has a pretty good write up about it. this will be especially interesting to you DX guys going from carb to FI here is the link:

http://the-compound.com/dylan/crx

i also put the link into my original post

will my d16a1 (86 Integra) motor fit in a 89-91 civic without a mount kit. If not where can i get a mount kit to do the swap and what do i need to know about the swap.

no it won't and i don't believe the make a mounting kit, usually swaps go the other way (ie newer to older car) my advice, go b-series. better power and in most cases it will be a bolt in

The reason being is that i have a runnin d16a1 and i have a 91 civic with a blown motor.

This is the wrong forum... You need to be posting this on the 88-91 forum. They might have better advice (not really, but it's worth a shot. :) )

The reason being is that i have a runnin d16a1 and i have a 91 civic with a blown motor.


Honestly, the money its going to take to swap it you would be better finding a b16 and swaping it, crx go hell fast then ^^, also I have a running crx motor out of an 85 si for sale.

I was told that the d16a1 will fit in a 87 and below civic/crx is that true.

I was told that the d16a1 will fit in a 87 and below civic/crx is that true.

Yes

An '86-'89 D16A1 from an Integra will fit into any '84-'87 Civic or CRX. The '86-'87 D16A1 motors will be the easiest to swap into an '85-'87 SI since the electronics are near identical. The '88-'89 D16A1 motors are a little more involved since they use a VSS (vehicle speed sensor), ELD (electronic load detector), electronic advance distributor, and a different ECU.

In order to swap any of these motors into a carbureted car you will also need a donor wiring harness, ECU, fuel pump and some sort of check engine light (PGM-FI light) to let you know if the ECU is sending a code. Or you could convert the D16A1 to run on carburetors. But be warned, you're on your own for a carbed intake manifold since no one makes them for a D16A1.

There are other differences between the motors as well. For instance, the '86-'87 D16A1 motors use slightly stronger rods and have dished pistons. While the '88-'89 D16A1 motors use slightly lighter rods with domed (interference) pistons. The '88-'89 motors also produce a little more power over the '86-'87 motors (stock comparison) due to the increase in comression ratio and also because of the slightly better flowing intake plenum.

The main difference between the '86-'87 and the '88-'89 motors is in the cylinder head. The cylinder heads are swappable between the years but are not compatable with the different engine management system. Meaning you CAN put a, '88-'89 D16A1 cylinder head on an '86-'87 block, but in doing so you will need to use the '88-'89 ECU, VSS, distributor, etc.

do i need a motor mount kit to do the swap. what other parts from the integra would i need except for the things you already told me.(ex. cv joints, shift linkage, etc..)

do i need a motor mount kit to do the swap. what other parts from the integra would i need except for the things you already told me.(ex. cv joints, shift linkage, etc..)

No motor mount kit needed. Use the Integra (or Civic) trans mounts and the Civic motor mount. The Civic motor mount will need to have a notch cut into it for clearance but that's it. The other parts needed from an '86-'87 Integra will be: ECU, emission control box (located on the firewall), transmission, shift linkage, steering knuckles, cv shafts, and the tube that connects the air filter to the throttle body. You don't need to, but you should put in stiffer front torsion bars to compensate for the added weight, and you should also consider using the Integra brakes. The front T-bars from an '84-'87 Civic wagon (not hatch back) are a little stiffer and will work in place of the Civic/CRX T-bars.

Thanks for the info, if i need anything else i will be sure to ask you lxndr, it seems that you know your stuff. When i do the swap ill let you know how it went. Thanks again.

hey i'm just doin a ZC swap into an 85 rex and i was just woundering how many of you out ther have done the swap before? I've already committed an baught a bunch of stuff so i'm just woundering what types of problems you have had or things that you have liked about driving with a ZC.

I found an 85 Crx automatic with a blown motor for $25, will i beable to put my clutch pedal and shift linkage in the car or do i have to find a manual crx. I have a complete 86 integra so i have all the parts needed for the swap.

I found an 85 Crx automatic with a blown motor for $25, will i beable to put my clutch pedal and shift linkage in the car or do i have to find a manual crx. I have a complete 86 integra so i have all the parts needed for the swap.

The parts should swap over. You might have trouble with the shift linkage, but with a donor Integra at hand it should be a simple modification.

Thanx alot

any update on the prelude engine? hows that motor mount?

no dice

damn! that woulda been sweet

This thread will never die!

I hope "CVCC WAGON" or one of you could help me with a few questions.

First let me say that I am not a troll dreaming about somthing some day way off in dreamland. I've had this 87 Civic sitting in my garage for years, since the day my son blew the motor. I've taken alot of grief from my wife over the years for hanging on to it and now I'm off and running!

I've just purchased what I thought was a D16a1 engine without tranny. I'm now worried I bought the wrong engine! I've been reading for months about this swap and learned that the easiest swap for my 87 4dr civic d15a2/5spd/carb is a D16a1 out of an integra.

I was hoping to find a wrecked integra for this project but haven't had luck finding a deal on one. So when I came across this engine for a couple hundred bucks, in very good shape, running well with no smoke, I jumped on it.

I now realize this is a D16a6 88-91 CRX SI. It's a SOHC W/red valve cover, am I in trouble? I'm hoping this engine will pretty much drop in and my 5 spd tranny will bolt up. Right, I hope?? If not, which trannys will match up?

I also don't think I want to try converting to FI (still leaning though), I didn't get the wiring harness or the ECU, so was hopeing I could bolt on my old intake and a new carb. Right, I hope?? Feel free to convince me going FI isn't so hard....

I will have to purchase an ECU for this motor, correct? I've read differing stories about improving performance by switching ECU's and would love to hear your opinions on which would be best, since I'll be shopping for one anyway.

This engine came complete with the exception of a missing altenator, but nothing extra. no shift cable, mounts, wiring harness, gauge cluster, axles, etc. Will I need any of these? What else will I need besides the obviouse water pump, belts, hoses, timing belt, tentioner, etc?

I know that's alot of questions, but could realy use the help.
Thank you!

This thread will never die!

I hope "CVCC WAGON" or one of you could help me with a few questions.

First let me say that I am not a troll dreaming about somthing some day way off in dreamland. I've had this 87 Civic sitting in my garage for years, since the day my son blew the motor. I've taken alot of grief from my wife over the years for hanging on to it and now I'm off and running!

I've just purchased what I thought was a D16a1 engine without tranny. I'm now worried I bought the wrong engine! I've been reading for months about this swap and learned that the easiest swap for my 87 4dr civic d15a2/5spd/carb is a D16a1 out of an integra.

I was hoping to find a wrecked integra for this project but haven't had luck finding a deal on one. So when I came across this engine for a couple hundred bucks, in very good shape, running well with no smoke, I jumped on it.

I now realize this is a D16a6 88-91 CRX SI. It's a SOHC W/red valve cover, am I in trouble? I'm hoping this engine will pretty much drop in and my 5 spd tranny will bolt up. Right, I hope?? If not, which trannys will match up?

I also don't think I want to try converting to FI (still leaning though), I didn't get the wiring harness or the ECU, so was hopeing I could bolt on my old intake and a new carb. Right, I hope?? Feel free to convince me going FI isn't so hard....

I will have to purchase an ECU for this motor, correct? I've read differing stories about improving performance by switching ECU's and would love to hear your opinions on which would be best, since I'll be shopping for one anyway.

This engine came complete with the exception of a missing altenator, but nothing extra. no shift cable, mounts, wiring harness, gauge cluster, axles, etc. Will I need any of these? What else will I need besides the obviouse water pump, belts, hoses, timing belt, tentioner, etc?

I know that's alot of questions, but could realy use the help.
Thank you!



Ok, I understand where you are coming from and all, but I wouldnt bother putting that engine in your rex, reason being your gonna have to spend money on making it fi, which means u need wiring harness, ecu, fuel pump, fuel filter. You will need a new transmission, motor mounts, and knowldge on how to wire the car up properly. My opinion is let that engine be for how under powered it is to spend money on trying to drop it in the rex. My sugestion is get on ebay and look for a
DOHC ZC engine on ebay. its the same as the American d16a1. you can usualy get a wiring harness and ecu with it. Thats my 2 cents on the issue. Its your car but thats what I feel is best, your going to put alot money into an engine that isnt worth it if you try and use the one you have.

a6's aren't bad motors.... But you will have a time getting it to work in your 3rd gen. I think some of the motor mounts will line up, but you will have some difficulties... Anyways... Maybe someone with more experience can shoot back an answer.

a6's aren't that bad, you can make a mini-me swap out of it. anyhow, the motor is more troubble then it's worth i think. the tranny you have won't mount to it. you'll need the Hasport mounting kit ($$) to install it. i'm not sure what the aftermarket is like for CV's but i don't think the stock ones will work. converting to Fi is pretty basic from what i understand but only if you're using the Fi from an 84-87 car. the 88-91 is quite different and there were two typs of Fi in those years, Dual point and Multi point, each will have a different wiring harness and ECU

a6's aren't that bad, you can make a mini-me swap out of it. anyhow, the motor is more troubble then it's worth i think. the tranny you have won't mount to it. you'll need the Hasport mounting kit ($$) to install it. i'm not sure what the aftermarket is like for CV's but i don't think the stock ones will work. converting to Fi is pretty basic from what i understand but only if you're using the Fi from an 84-87 car. the 88-91 is quite different and there were two typs of Fi in those years, Dual point and Multi point, each will have a different wiring harness and ECU

I wasn't saying a6 was a bad motor, but its not worth the money to convert, especialy when you can get a zc and put it in for about the price or cheaper. Ebay has a ton of em. Converting a carb to efi is somewhat tricky but not too hard, the worst part is the wiring loom. Also have to run fuel lines charcoal canisters, crap like that. Ne way I think the ZC is better you can get one off of ebay for like 600$

sorry, i was actually responding to Figori's post when i said that. i was at work and now that i look at it again i see that i read it backwards. just reverse the first two words and put a question mark after it and you'll see what i mean.
my bro got shafted with his 89 CRX Si, came with a D15B2. at some point his car was the compilation of two cars (not a chop, just interior and motor)

I'm still kinda leaning toward making this work. The motor is out of a 1990 CRX and was completely rebuilt a little over a year ago. New bearings, pistons & rings, head rebuilt, etc. The owner of the car just did a swap for a bigger motor and I got the D16A6 for $250.00. I got the AC Compressor, an adjustable cam gear and a few other misc stuff with it. I think I'm so far ahead on cost that I may be able to afford all the extras this motor would require. What do you think? If not I think I'll be able to get my money out of it and start looking again.

I'm still kinda leaning toward making this work. The motor is out of a 1990 CRX and was completely rebuilt a little over a year ago. New bearings, pistons & rings, head rebuilt, etc. The owner of the car just did a swap for a bigger motor and I got the D16A6 for $250.00. I got the AC Compressor, an adjustable cam gear and a few other misc stuff with it. I think I'm so far ahead on cost that I may be able to afford all the extras this motor would require. What do you think? If not I think I'll be able to get my money out of it and start looking again.


I have a couple good questions... What did you get with that engine?

Cause at ebay a zc dohc costs about 800$ with 5spd tranny, ecu, wiring harness, mounting brackets. all the stuff you practicaly for a swap and they pack a mighty 135hp, not bad for a 1.6l dohc w/o vtec.
To get a tranny to maybe fit that would cost easily 400$ at a junk yard cause they are crazy like that. To explain why (JDM) japaneese engines, why they are so cheap with what they have is because of the strict laws over there. A owner of a car in japan has to either replace the engine or scrap the car at 40k miles, thats why there are alot of engines imported from there here. American companies see the import boom and see it as a money oportunity. That engine you have i believe produces 90hp stock, although you say it was rebuilt so it may have more hp due to boreing the cylender walls. As I say thats my opinion, im just trying to save you heart ache at looking at the bigger picture. Plus the zc is a way easier swap. You would have to make coustom motor mounts.

I now realize this is a D16a6 88-91 CRX SI. It's a SOHC W/red valve cover, am I in trouble? I'm hoping this engine will pretty much drop in and my 5 spd tranny will bolt up. Right, I hope?? If not, which trannys will match up?

I also don't think I want to try converting to FI (still leaning though), I didn't get the wiring harness or the ECU, so was hopeing I could bolt on my old intake and a new carb. Right, I hope?? Feel free to convince me going FI isn't so hard....

I've read differing stories about improving performance by switching ECU's and would love to hear your opinions on which would be best, since I'll be shopping for one anyway.

This engine came complete with the exception of a missing altenator, but nothing extra. no shift cable, mounts, wiring harness, gauge cluster, axles, etc. Will I need any of these? What else will I need besides the obviouse water pump, belts, hoses, timing belt, tentioner, etc?



First off, you got hosed!

Secondly, I agree with "88novarules", an '86-'87 USDM D16A1 or JDM D16A1-ZC would solve most all of your problems. But I wouldn't get one off ebay, simply because you'll pay another $400-$500 just to get it shipped. Instead look in your phone book for a JDM engine importer, then go check out the motor and pick it up yourself.

But that's not what the issue is. The issue is that you bought this motor and now you want to know how to make it work, right? I don't know everything that is involved with making this motor work but I can pass along what information I do know.

You will need to use this motor with either single port or multi point fuel injection. The D16A6 motor has an electronic advance distributor that requires an ECU in order to operate, so as long as you need to have the ECU you might as well run a full multi point FI system. This will require that you have a donor wiring harness from an '88-'91 CRX SI or an '88-'89 Integra. Besides, the ports on your carbed manifold won't match up to the D16A6 head without some grinding.

Your transmission will not bolt up to this motor. You will need to get one from an '88-'91 Civic/CRX. While you're at the junk yard getting a wiring harness and tranny, also pick up the radiator hoses, throttle cable, and shift linkage.

Keep in mind that this motor will not directly bolt in to your car. You will need to modify ALL of the motor and transmission mounts. Also you will need to construct your own CV axles by using the inner CV joint and shaft from an '88-'91 Civic/CRX, and the outer CV joint from an '84-'87 CRX. Im not sure if the '86-'89 Integra knuckles will work instead of making your own CV shafts since I've never compared the splines of an Integra knuckle to those of an '88-'91 Civic/CRX CV shaft. I do know that the splines are different from an '87 to '88 CRX because when my CV joint went out, I ordered a rebuilt CV shaft for an '86 CRX but received one for an '88-'91 CRX, and of course I didn't notice until I was 3/4 of the way into the project.

You'll probably want to ask around in the '88-'91 Civic/CRX forum to see which ECU is best, but I think you can use a PM6 and have it chipped. An 88-'89 Integra will also work, but these work better for the D16A6-ZC motors or for Mini-me swaps with a Vtec controller.

You will also need a VSS from either an '84-'87 CRX HF (best), an '88-'91 Civic/CRX, or form an '88-'89 Integra. The CRX HF VSS is best since it fits right into your gauge cluster. The '88-'91 Civic/CRX VSS won't fit in your gauge cluster and the '88-89 VSS will fit but the speedo will be incorrect.

Well, that's about all I know.

But...
I have to ask, why are you going through all this effort to swap in a motor that only gets 10 Hp more than a stock '85-'87 SI motor? If that's is all the HP you'll gain, why not just rebuild and modify the stock EW motor? The stock motor can be bored out to accept D16A1 pistons, this along with a cam, an SI head, an exhaust manifold, and a CAI and you'll produce more power for less money and effort. What you paid for the new motor would have paid for the D16A1 pistons and a reground camshaft.


Anyway,

Good luck!

I actualy think I would be going from a 76HP D15a2 to a 109HP D16a6. I could be wrong.....

Like you said, I got hosed! My ignorance and a shifty character who told me it was a D16a1. He said it was the same thing and I didn't know any better.

I found a thread on redpepperracing with lots of pics where a guy had done everything I would need to do just to mount this motor. It's not pretty! It's doable, but requires alot of cutting and welding just to manufacture the mounts. The very thing I want to avoid!!!

Any way, I was hoping I could make it work but think your saving me alot of time and money. I'm sure I'll find someone who could use a rebuilt D16a6.

There are several Importers here in NE Florida and I'll go with an integra D16a1, unless I find a steal on a donor car that would make this motor work.

Considering I'm swaping from a carbed 87civic what are the advantages & disadvantages between the '86-'87 USDM D16A1 and the JDM D16A1-ZC?

The only major difference between the USDM and JDM motors is the cams, that and the JDM motors will only have about 30,000 miles on them. The USDM D16A1 motor produces about 115HP while the D16A1-ZC motor puts out almost 140HP. Either engine will install exactly the same, and you can either install all the FI electrical from a donor '86-'87 Integra or construct a carbed manifold for it (ask cvcc_wagon for some advise on constructing a manifold).

If you decide to go carbed use the '86/'87 motor since it has a vacuum advance distributor. If you decide to go FI then you can also use the '88/'89 motor since you will have to install all the electrical anyway. The advantage of the '88-'89 D16A1 is that it uses an electronic advance distributor, ELD (electronic load detector), and a VSS (vehicle speed sensor). The '88/'89 motors also produce slightly more HP due to the domed pistons (higher CR) and larger intake plenum. The disadvantage of the '88/'89 motors is that thay have weaker connecting rods than the '86-'87 motors, but this shouldn't be an issue unless you're planning to run a turbo or NOS.

Oh, and about the 10 Hp more thing, I was just trying to put things in perspective. To me it seems that you would be putting alot of effort into swapping in a motor that won't give you much gain, when you could spend less effort rebuilding your stock motor to produce just as much power or swap in a D16A1. If you wanted to go through all the trouble of swapping in a motor that won't directly bolt in, you'd be better off swapping in a B-series motor. Granted there are more aftermarket parts available for the D16A6, but power is limited without spending alot of $$$. This is why most people with '88-'91 Civic/CRX's who are looking for more power either do a mini-me swap (VTEC), or they swap the D16A6 for a ZC motor.

The only major difference between the USDM and JDM motors is the cams, that and the JDM motors will only have about 30,000 miles on them. .

Do they realy still have '86-'87 integra motors with under 30,000 miles coming out of Japan nearly 20 years later???

Didn't they make a JDM D16a1 with a carb at some point? If so how hard would it be to find that intake and aftermarket carb to match?

I've read numerouse how to's on this swap but all of them involved swapping into a Civic with FI. does anyone know of links to info involving the switch from Carb to FI on an 87 civic? I'm well capable of doing the wiring, I just would like to read up on any of the problems I may incounter and would like a better understanding of the extra parts I would need to find in order to make the switch.

I for sure don't want to be the first egg head to do this! I'm sure avoiding the headaches of tuneing and maintaining a carb would be worth the extra effort though.

Thanks for all the help!!!!

yes there was a carb version of the D16A1 (both dual sidedraft and single downdraft) way back around 83~84 but only in asian and australian markets. the manifolds are not easy to get ahold of however. search ebay for a few years and you may come up with something...

I've read numerouse how to's on this swap but all of them involved swapping into a Civic with FI. does anyone know of links to info involving the switch from Carb to FI on an 87 civic? I'm well capable of doing the wiring, I just would like to read up on any of the problems I may incounter and would like a better understanding of the extra parts I would need to find in order to make the switch.

I for sure don't want to be the first egg head to do this! I'm sure avoiding the headaches of tuneing and maintaining a carb would be worth the extra effort though.

Thanks for all the help!!!!
ahem... have a look at the first post in this thread, a few months ago this fellow emailed me asking me to add his webpage writeup on converting from carb to Fi with the D16
http://www.the-compound.com/dylan/crx/

hey guys whats up! sorry to take so long on my up date....
so heres what i got.... the motors a jdm d16...the things in mint condition its...its fi.it brings the motor,trans,harnes,ecu,fuel pump,shift linkage,and a hole bunch of stuff....under a grand$$$...pretty good hu!!!! he says that my carb manifold can be used,and even if it cant,he makes a custom spacer of aluminum or this really hard as plastic...the aluminum one looks expensive,so i want to try out the plastic one....i really whant to see if its realliable and if it is....gona make a few of them,sell them for the same price it cost me,and then you guys tinker it out a little bit....i can make my 4 door f/i but first i want too see the difference,and give the poor (like me :) ) diffrent and more cheeper ways to go!!!!!

what about a parts list to clear this up, so much scattered info is kinda overwhelming

The essential parts needed to swap in an '86-'87 Acura Integra D16A1 are:

D16A1 motor, tranny, tranny mount, shift linkage, CV shafts, steering knuckles, throttle cable.

Additional parts are:
ECU, air intake tube (if not using a CAI), donor engine wiring harness (since you'll need to switch some pins around), exhaust manifold (if not using a header) stiffer torsion bars, and a brake swap.

If you're on a budget, the D16A1 will run using the CRX SI ECU until you can get the integra ECU, None of the parts from your stock EW/D15 will fit on the D16A1 motor, so you will need a complete donor motor.

An '88-'89 D16A1 will require the same parts, but you will also need a CRX HF VSS, and a complete '88-'89 Integra engine wiring harness including the ELD, and an '88-'89 ECU.

yo guys.....the d16a6 does come carb...its in a place called jr motor connection....its scary just looking at it...it looks like a normal carbed civic...ill try to take some pictures with my cell phone...

Why do you want to put a D16A6 in your car?

sorry...i ment d16a1....my bad...


its that me so stupid......!duhhhhhhhhhh...

Oh yeah, you guys were right. The JDM '85-'87 Integra's did have a carbed version of the D16A1. I found some info on a 1G Teg website.

they came with a single downdraft pretty similar to the one on the Canadian EW2 and also with sededrafts kind of like the old prelude ones. it's pretty rare but you can get a DCOE manifold to run dual sidedraft Webers or Mukunies (sp?) or whatever.

www.effinmotorworks.com/Zeno_Writeup.htm....
check it out.. its a wagon...but its the same platform.....

pretty cool. i'll add it to my first post

i am going to be doing a d16a1 swap from the 86-87 integra into my 87 crx si. i have been reading this post and some others. I know pretty much everything i need, so no problem there. my question i guess is will I or will i not have to modify my stock crx si harness? i have read that no modifications to the harness are needed and i have read(in this topic) that some pins need moved around. can anyone clarify on wether or not i am going to have to modify my harness? thanks

can anyone clarify on wether or not i am going to have to modify my harness? thanks


Most of my wiring research has been for the '88-'89 D16A1 motor since that's what I'm using. But I have checked out the wiring for the '86-'87 motor and it appears the same as the wiring for an SI. If I recall correctly, I think it's just the connectors for the alternator and emissions box that are different.

I had an '87 Integra ECU in my '86 SI and it ran perfectly with no error codes. All I did was pull out the SI ECU and replace it with the Integra ECU, no wiring mods at all. The D16A1 will even run off your stock SI ECU, but it is recommended that you swap it for a PG7-662 ECU for better performance.

If a had a 87 crx it realy good shape and a d16a1 it it bluh bluh bluh,
how much do you think i could sell it for if I needed to.



also
Iv read this whole thing and i just have a few siple clarification questions:

can I put a d16a1 from integra into my 87 crx (ew2, carb) with all the fuel pump linkage, intake etc?

will a 88 civic dx intake do anything for me here?

do I need the integra axles?

will the axles fit on the wheel assembly?

why is there so much hair on my back?

do I need to run all new fuel lines?

what is a charcoal box?

is it nessisary to do the whole steering rack, or just the knuckles? and why? (this part reallly confuses me)

will fenders from a 87(3rd gen right?) hatch fit on a 87 crx?

my 91 civic engine wont fit in a 87?

is the carb crx always an "hf" (im in canada), i ask because of all the ASS (he,he, bum) talk and the shift light becoming the error light?(clarification)

what would the weight be of a 87 crx with a d16a1?

thanks

If a had a 87 crx it realy good shape and a d16a1 it it bluh bluh bluh,
how much do you think i could sell it for if I needed to.



also
Iv read this whole thing and i just have a few siple clarification questions:

can I put a d16a1 from integra into my 87 crx (ew2, carb) with all the fuel pump linkage, intake etc?

will a 88 civic dx intake do anything for me here?

do I need the integra axles?

will the axles fit on the wheel assembly?

why is there so much hair on my back?

do I need to run all new fuel lines?

what is a charcoal box?

is it nessisary to do the whole steering rack, or just the knuckles? and why? (this part reallly confuses me)

will fenders from a 87(3rd gen right?) hatch fit on a 87 crx?

my 91 civic engine wont fit in a 87?

is the carb crx always an "hf" (im in canada), i ask because of all the ASS (he,he, bum) talk and the shift light becoming the error light?(clarification)

what would the weight be of a 87 crx with a d16a1?

thanks
holy hell that's a lot of questions. first of all resail vale is really determined by where you live and the overall condition of the car. to the right buyer i would say that having the d16a1 would put you ~$500 more then the same car without assuming that the rest of the car was clean and rust free. that's just my best guess however.

can I put a d16a1 from integra into my 87 crx (ew2, carb) with all the fuel pump linkage, intake etc?
there is a link in the first post of this thread from a fellow who put the FI motor into a carb CRX. you will have to use all the wiring and fuel system from either a CRX Si or an Intera.

will a 88 civic dx intake do anything for me here?
no

do I need the integra axles?
yes, the CRX axles are unequal length, the integra uses a intermediate shaft in the center so that each CV shaft is the same length.

will the axles fit on the wheel assembly?
i believe the wheel assy. has to be replaced with the integra ones. i can't remember if it is to take advantage of the bigger brakes or if it is because of a different spindle size, others can provide more info in this.

is it nessisary to do the whole steering rack, or just the knuckles? and why? (this part really confuses me)
just the knuckles (see above)

why is there so much hair on my back?
bad genes

do I need to run all new fuel lines?
you should, however i have heard of people using the stock DX/HF lines. ideally you would use either integra or SI lines. you could even go so far as to use steel braided lines but that could get a little expensive.

what is a charcoal box?
part of the emissions system, if you can figure out how to hook it up properly use it, if not chuck it.

will fenders from a 87(3rd gen right?) hatch fit on a 87 crx?
civic fenders will not fit the CRX

my 91 civic engine wont fit in a 87?
Hasport makes a D-Series mounting kit but completing a D-Series swap in your 1G will probably set you back $3000 by the time you are finished so most opt. not to do it. there is more to it then simply mounting the motor in the engine bay.

is the carb crx always an "hf" (im in canada), i ask because of all the ASS (he,he, bum) talk and the shift light becoming the error light?(clarification)

there are 2 carb versions, the DX which is 1.5l and the HF which is the 1.3l. the HF is an econo. car which is why it has the shift light and whatnot. the shift light tells you when to shift to get the best gas mileage, not when toy get the best performance. if you rev it past the shift it may give you an error reading. having the HF is of some advantage as the integra motor uses the same speed sensor technology as the HF and with some modification you can use the HF dash unit with the integra motor. The HF is also lighter then the DX or the Si but i don't know the exact weight if the car or the car/motor combo.

if I had a complete integra and a complete crx 1.5 then I have everything i need right? 1 engine, 1 harness, 1gauge cluster from integra, etc. what problems will I run into?

if I had a complete integra and a complete crx 1.5 then I have everything i need right? 1 engine, 1 harness, 1gauge cluster from integra, etc. what problems will I run into?

Yes, you will have everything you need. But you won't need the gauge cluster (it won't fit in the Civic anyway).

The only reason you would need the gauge cluster is if you are swapping in an '88/'89 D16A1. This is because the '88/'89 ECU uses a VSS (vehicle speed sensor) that is located in the speedo. But if you just swap the Integra speedo into the Civic gauge cluster, the speedometer will not read accurately. If you are planning to use an '88/'89 D16A1, track down a CRX HF gauge cluster since it already has a VSS installed. You won't have to swap the speedo at all if you use an '86/'87 D16A1.

Also, you'll need to stiffen up the front torsion bars to accomodate the added weight. You can either swap the whole Integra crossmember/T-bars or locate a set of 24mm T-bars. If you've lowered the car, you might consider 27mm T-bars to keep it from bottoming out.

BTW resale value is determined by the condition of the car, market and location, not the sum of it's parts. Some potential buyers may feel that a D16A1 swap actually lowers the value of the car. This is because most people want a well maintained, unmolested car. Also keep in mind that you'll never get the money invested in the car back out of it. IE: say you bought your car for $1,000, you spend another $1,000 rebuilding the engine, $500 on suspension, $1,000 on bodywork/paint, $500 on interior, $200 for a BIGAZZ spoiler, $500 on a superpimpfullofscoopsandstuffthatruinsaerodynamics body kit, $1,500 on wagon wheels and rubberband tires, and $200 on neon lights, strobes and anything else to attract attention because you were neglected as a child and have low self esteem. In the end your car may only be worth $3,000 on a good day.

Not to say this is how you plan to build your car, or that you have an inferiority complex, this is just an exmple. I have rarely seen tastefully built 1G CRX's sell for more than $3,000, so don't be concerned with the value of the car and just have fun with it! Drive it until you wreck it, then reuse the parts to build another one!

will a 88 civic dx intake do anything for me here?
It won't fit on the D16A1

will the axles fit on the wheel assembly?
The splines are different. You need to swap the Integra knuckles too.

why is there so much hair on my back?
Because you're a monkey.

what is a charcoal box?
If you're a hippie, hook it up. But you don't need it, and you'll still pass the sniff test without it. However, if you live in an area where you have an underhood emissions inspection you will probably need to have it installed. The Integra uses a different emission system configuration, so when you swap the motor just swap the emissions crap too. If you decide not to use the emissions box, the only part that you need out of it is the MAP sensor.

my 91 civic engine wont fit in a 87?
Not easily, You will have to fabricate your own motor/tranny mounts, and swap all the same parts that you would need for an '88/'89 D16A1 swap, plus you won't get as much HP as you would with a D16A1 swap. This is why most people don't bother to swap in newer D-series motors. However you would gain by swapping in a B-series motor.

i think lxndr needs to start taking his pills again :rolleyes:

whats the harness mods, if any, if I swap the engine, computer etc?

you won't be modifying it, you'll be installing it

so Its "plug and play" esentially?

i think lxndr needs to start taking his pills again :rolleyes:


I got new ones! They're a pretty blue color!

so Its "plug and play" esentially?assuming you have the integra harness

will a D16a1 fit in my 85 crx?, it's a carb'd 1500cc with nearly 300k clicks on it now.

P.S.- what exactly is a D16a1 motor anyway? how much better is it than what i got?

read the entire thread. some of your questions could even be answered on THIS page

will a D16a1 fit in my 85 crx?, it's a carb'd 1500cc with nearly 300k clicks on it now.

P.S.- what exactly is a D16a1 motor anyway? how much better is it than what i got?

Yes, a D16A1 will fit in your '85 CRX, but please read the whole thread for details.

The D16A1 is a dual over head cam (DOHC) motor that was available in the USDM '86-'89 Acura Integra, EDM '86-'89 Integra and '85-'87 CRX, and a JDM ZC version of the D16A1 was available in the '85-'89 Integra and '85-'87 CRX. The D16A1 was the predecessor to the B-series motors, but it shares no "bolt on" parts with either a D-series or a B-series motor. The head is similar to a B-series while the block is similar to a D-series, and NO, a B-series head will not fit on a D16A1, neither will any other D-series head. Some parts from D-series motors will fit, like the water pump, oil pump, connecting rods and throttle body, but the intake manifold, cams and distributor from either D or B-series will not fit. You can however bolt any '88+ D-series exhaust manifold/header onto a D16A1 with a little port matching, this also opens up turbo possiblilties without having to custom make an exhaust manifold.

well, i spoke with someone from Honda and he told me that swapping in a D16 wouldn't be worth it. so i've decided on a B16 with a cable clutch, from what i hear it offers 162hp and will be killer in a crx. he's already done 3 swaps like this, so now all i need is the engine :) is an autowreckers a good place to look?

well, i spoke with someone from Honda and he told me that swapping in a D16 wouldn't be worth it. so i've decided on a B16 with a cable clutch, from what i hear it offers 162hp and will be killer in a crx. he's already done 3 swaps like this, so now all i need is the engine :) is an autowreckers a good place to look?

Has this person ever swapped a B-series into an 84-'87 CRX?

Did he also tell you that in addition to the cost of the motor you need another $1,600-$1,800 to spend on a motor mount, wiring, linkage and CV kit in order to swap in a B-series?

Don't get me wrong a B-series motor is a better motor, it has a shorter stroke than a D-series and there is more aftermarket support. But how much do you want to spend?

The reason the D16A1 swap is appealing is because you can find a used '86-'89 Integra for about $500 and have everything you need for the swap. You can also get an '86-'89 Integra ZC motor which puts out about 135hp in stock form and with a CAI, header, and cam regrind you can add at least another 10hp.

I just finished putting my rebuilt D16A1 together, and with a ported head, ZC intake, ZC cams, header and lightened flywheel, my machinist and I have conservatively estimated the HP to be between 150-160. Granted I won't know the actual numbers until I put the motor in and dyno it, but 150-160hp from a NA motor is enough to give any B-series motor a run for it's money. Also, I rebuilt this motor for about $1,200 and it will drop right in! Including the motor rebuild, I have invested about $2,000 into this project, that includes the Integra swap parts (knuckles, CV shafts, tranny, etc.), clutch, and an LSD for the tranny.

Most Honda enthusiasts are into '88-'91 (2G) CRX's, and he's right, a D16A1 swap in a 2G CRX would just be stupid. The D16A1 won't bolt into a 2G and the fabrication needed to swap the D16A1 motor into a 2G is more than the effort needed to swap a B-series or 2G ZC motor. But the 1G CRX is an entirely different car from the 2G, the same rules don't apply.

you make a good point, i'll have to think about it.

i'll have to see if i can find a d16 from an 86-89 integra i can swap in.

i found this '86 prelude with an ET2 1.8 12V SOHC Dual Sidedraft 100hp@5500rpm 104tq@4000rpm at a pick-a-part. will it fit?

i found this '86 prelude with an ET2 1.8 12V SOHC Dual Sidedraft 100hp@5500rpm 104tq@4000rpm at a pick-a-part. will it fit?

NO.

i didn't think so. i'll keep looking for a 86,87 integra.

I have invested about $2,000 into this project, that includes the Integra swap parts (knuckles, CV shafts, tranny, etc.), clutch, and an LSD for the tranny.
Where did you get your LSD?

Where did you get your LSD?

It's a Phantom Grip (AKA Phantom Slip).

IMO, save your money for a Quaife or something similar. The PG LSD constantly slips, the next time I take the tranny apart I'm going to throw the PG in the trash and replace it with something of higher quality.

It's a Phantom Grip (AKA Phantom Slip).

IMO, save your money for a Quaife or something similar. The PG LSD constantly slips, the next time I take the tranny apart I'm going to throw the PG in the trash and replace it with something of higher quality.
I haven't figured out where to pick up a Quaife or a used Mugen LSD

I would never install a PG, they really are trash.

So if you had a donor Integra could you just swap the whole axle over?

yes. the 2 axles and the center halfshaft

Yes

An '86-'89 D16A1 from an Integra will fit into any '84-'87 Civic or CRX. The '86-'87 D16A1 motors will be the easiest to swap into an '85-'87 SI since the electronics are near identical. The '88-'89 D16A1 motors are a little more involved since they use a VSS (vehicle speed sensor), ELD (electronic load detector), electronic advance distributor, and a different ECU.

In order to swap any of these motors into a carbureted car you will also need a donor wiring harness, ECU, fuel pump and some sort of check engine light (PGM-FI light) to let you know if the ECU is sending a code. Or you could convert the D16A1 to run on carburetors. But be warned, you're on your own for a carbed intake manifold since no one makes them for a D16A1.

There are other differences between the motors as well. For instance, the '86-'87 D16A1 motors use slightly stronger rods and have dished pistons. While the '88-'89 D16A1 motors use slightly lighter rods with domed (interference) pistons. The '88-'89 motors also produce a little more power over the '86-'87 motors (stock comparison) due to the increase in comression ratio and also because of the slightly better flowing intake plenum.

The main difference between the '86-'87 and the '88-'89 motors is in the cylinder head. The cylinder heads are swappable between the years but are not compatable with the different engine management system. Meaning you CAN put a, '88-'89 D16A1 cylinder head on an '86-'87 block, but in doing so you will need to use the '88-'89 ECU, VSS, distributor, etc.

I've got an 89 Teg donor car.So can I use the distributor and ECU from the teg (and engine)on my '87 Si or must I use distributor and ECU from an earlier Teg?

I've got an 89 Teg donor car.So can I use the distributor and ECU from the teg (and engine)on my '87 Si or must I use distributor and ECU from an earlier Teg?

You can swap everything from the Integra. You will also need to swap the wiring harness or rewire your CRX harness. If I had a donor Teg, I'd just swap the wiring harness. Use the Teg ECU, the CRX ECU will not control the electornic advance distributor on your '89 Teg motor.

You can swap everything from the Integra. You will also need to swap the wiring harness or rewire your CRX harness. If I had a donor Teg, I'd just swap the wiring harness. Use the Teg ECU, the CRX ECU will not control the electornic advance distributor on your '89 Teg motor.
Thanks for reply..Is it a mission fitting the wiring harness?I'm not a lover of loads of wires!
Had a result with the 89'
donor car,80000 miles,one lady owner.Off with its head...:evillol:

i did that same swap and i used the whole 89 integra wiring harnes that runs from the ecu all the way to the taillights to the headlights took me like a week.... also u need to install the speed sensor either from an hf 1st gen or do like i did use the integra gauge cluster..

i did that same swap and i used the whole 89 integra wiring harnes that runs from the ecu all the way to the taillights to the headlights took me like a week.... also u need to install the speed sensor either from an hf 1st gen or do like i did use the integra gauge cluster..
Does the Teg gauge cluster fit in the original dash housing or just change the speedo clock?

it was the stock crx dash that i cut out a little bigger to install the integra gauge cluster the water temp the speedometer the whole cluster, it wasnt pretty but it got the job done... im not very good at wiring thats why i did it that way... i didnt know that the hf had a speed sensor ortherwise i would have done that...

You can swap everything from the Integra. You will also need to swap the wiring harness or rewire your CRX harness. If I had a donor Teg, I'd just swap the wiring harness. Use the Teg ECU, the CRX ECU will not control the electornic advance distributor on your '89 Teg motor.

Hi I've got the whole interior stripped out in my Civic.Wanted to know if the whole wiring harness would need to be changed (ie.lights etc)or does the harness divide so you can just use the engine section for the electronic advance for the conversion?Want to get this straight before I get into demolishing the Teg...
help appreciated as always...

when i first had my zc running i just used the whole integra wiring harness its pretty much the same except for a few things like the integra has pop up headlights so i had a relay that i didnt need. i also used the whole integra fuse box and the integra gauge cluster because the need of the speed sensor.. i tried weeding out the engine control from the chasi wires after i blew the motor so i could rebuilt with a cleaner look but theres just so many that i wound up screwing it up.. i have heard that peoples done it b4 but aparently they have more patients than me

Alright, Alright,
I know that there is probily some info here for me but there is so much info that Im tired. I have an 87 CRX. I have a D16Z6 out of a 95 civic. Do the Motor mounts and tranny mounts fit. And any other info that i need that I dont have (So everything) would be greatly appriciated. What axles should I use and fuel system rewuirements and shift linkage and, and, and....


Thanks to all who help.

I'm not sure if this has been covered or not but I haven't seen anything on it. Are the valves in a zc head the same as what's in a d16a1? from what I've read sofar both engines are pretty similar. What is different about the zc that makes the extra 20-25hp over the d16a1?

the cams i think make up the extra horsepower... not sure bout the valves though

lxndr will probably know better but i assume they are. 85crxzc is right, the extra hp is due to the cams and a larger intake manifold

It's all in the cams, everything else is pretty much the same.

The '85-'87 ZC motors have a dual plate throttle body just like an '85-'87 SI but the design of the intake manifold is essentially the same as a D16A1 (ZC also has an EGR on the IM).

The '88-'89 Integra ZC IM is almost exactly the same as an '88-'89 D16A1, and the '88-'91 Civic ZC has the largest IM (which is what I'm using).

The '88-'89 Integra D16A1 and '88-'91 Civic ZC motors have lighter rods and a higher compression ratio than the '85-'87 D16A1/ZC1 motors.


Here's a pic of an '88-'91 Civic ZC intake manifold on my '89 D16A1 with ZC cams (amongst many other mods).
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/2278000-2278999/2278318_8_full.jpg
More info here:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2278318/1

thanks for the info guys! I have a 85 carbed crx and a 87 integra that were both more less given to me. I picked up the rex for $150 and the integra for free they just wanted it out of there yard. I've swapped out the entire wiring harness along with the fuel pump to make it fuel injected I got everything in and when I hit the key I got no compression. It has a new timing belt which leads me to believe someone either broke there old one or replaced it and didn't adjust the timing at all because the timing marks are way off plus there's alot of slack in the valves so i'm guessing the valves are bent. I have a 88-91 zc block with scared up piston dome's but good valves and cams. I'm hoping I can put the zc valves and cams into the 86-87 intergra head and be good to go.

You can actually swap the whole ZC head onto the D16A1 block. The ZC head bolts on exactly like the D16A1 head (it just looks a little different), just remember to use the D16A1 cam gears.

ok i guess i'm a little confused... are the pistons in the 88-89 integra d16a1 the same ones that are in the civic zc 88-91? I alson noticed on an engine chart the d16a3 is rated at 118hp and the d16a1 is rated at 113 but it shows the d16a1 to be out of a 86-89 teg and the d16a3 to be out of an 88-89 teg? Just want to make sure i have the right pistons and rods before i start building the engine..

ok i guess i'm a little confused... are the pistons in the 88-89 integra d16a1 the same ones that are in the civic zc 88-91? I alson noticed on an engine chart the d16a3 is rated at 118hp and the d16a1 is rated at 113 but it shows the d16a1 to be out of a 86-89 teg and the d16a3 to be out of an 88-89 teg? Just want to make sure i have the right pistons and rods before i start building the engine..

No matter what you read, ALL USDM '86-'89 Integra motors are labeled as a D16A1. There is no such motor as a D16A3, however the EDM versions of the DOHC D-series motors are labeled as D16A8 and D16A9.

The '88-'89 D16A1 pistons are the same as an '88-'91 Civic ZC.

Almost all of the internal parts are interchangeable between the DOHC D-series motors and the DOHC ZC motors, with the exception of the '86-'87 D16A1 oil pump and the Civic ZC crank and cam gears.

thanks! BTW your car looks awsome! Although I've had many many honda projects this is my first 1st gen so I'm trying to learn a little. I think my setup on the engine will be somewhat similar to yours as far as the parts go. I'll try to post some pics soon.

ok srry this is sorta off topic but i have a 3g civic, 84 civic 1500s hb. i dont know the engine code, for some reason it is very hard to find, but i am interested in a mini-me swap. i have done a little research and it looks like the D16Y8 will fit my engine block. im not 100% sure about that so, is there any other engine head that will fit my block and give my civic a little more kick? i would appreciate any info! thanks for looking

hey i need help i have d16a1 that im gonna put in a 87 crx do i have to change the distributor connetions and how