I've come with the hopes of finding someone who knows about dodge shadows and/or daytonas.

I've got a 1991 Dodge Shadow With only 70,000 miles on it.
Sitting next to it in the garage, is an old, beat up 1984 Dodge
Daytona Turbo with 114,000 miles.

Rather than restore the Daytona(my first initial thoughts), I'd like to take the turbo, intercooler, and anything else I might need, out of it, and put it in the Shadow.

However I've realized autobody is completely different from automechanics, and I'm no guru on this topic. :disappoin


I'd like to know if this can be done, how hard it is, and how costly?
Maybe even an In-depth tutorial on this, if there are any...

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thx so much!

- Phoenix X

You came to the right place.

I can help you, but first, what engine is in your Shadow and what engine is in your Daytona?

Thanks! My Dodge shadow is a 2.5L, the Daytona is a 2.2L Turbo.

If you need anymore info lemme know, im anxious to here your reply!

:)

Great, you're off to a great start. I have two words for you, engine swap. The problem with your engine is that the engine won't hold up to turbo charging very well. It just wasn't designed for it. It will cost you a lot more to turbo the 2.5L then it will to swap in the 2.2L from the Daytona. You said it had an intercooler so it was a Turbo II. You will want to swap everything from under the hood including the axles and transmission. It sounds daunting, but it is your best option. Also here is a best tech reference on the internet for the Turbo Dodges:

Gary Donovan's Dodge Garage. (http://www.thedodgegarage.com)

This will tell you how to do anything you need to with a TD. Also, you might want to register at the Turbo Dodge Forums (http://www.turbododge.com) if you want to get into the TD community.

Wow, that's horrific!

The problem is the Daytona has high mileage, and the shadow's engine, only half as much. The shadow also has a brand-new transmission.

I did find a 2.5L shadow Turbo Manifold http://www.ppuskas.com/bay/intakeb01.jpg
for sale. Is there anyway I can buy this manifold
and hook up the TII to it? since this is off a 2.5L shadow
won't it fit?

Obviously I'm new to this, but is there really no way around this?

I've been to Donovan's Garage earlier today, and learned a little
but he did mention turbo charging a non turbo P-Body car i believe.

I will join the TD forums also. Thanks for all your help!

Hey, Polygon, thanks for posting the link to turbododge.com. I've always wondered if there was a shelby dodge one around.

Wow, that's horrific!

The problem is the Daytona has high mileage, and the shadow's engine, only half as much. The shadow also has a brand-new transmission.

I did find a 2.5L shadow Turbo Manifold http://www.ppuskas.com/bay/intakeb01.jpg
for sale. Is there anyway I can buy this manifold
and hook up the TII to it? since this is off a 2.5L shadow
won't it fit?

Obviously I'm new to this, but is there really no way around this?

I've been to Donovan's Garage earlier today, and learned a little
but he did mention turbo charging a non turbo P-Body car i believe.

I will join the TD forums also. Thanks for all your help!

Yeah, I'm not even sure if that manifold will bolt to your block. I’m not very knowledgeable with the TBI engines. The problem is that the turbo engines from 1989 and up were different from the TBI engines. They were called the common block. No matter what you're going to have to swap out the engine if you want to go turbo. You can turbo-charge the engine you have, it will just be far too much money and time that the engine swap just makes more sense. Also, the Garrett T03 used in the TII won't bolt to that manifold. The 2.5L turbo cars were all TI and they used a Mitsubishi TE04H so you’d have to find a flange to bolt the Garrett from the Daytona on. You might not need to swap out the transmission depending on which one you have on the Shadow, but the axles will be a must.

I look forward to seeing you both at TD.com, there are a lot of people there and they are glad to help. It is a great community.

You might not need to swap out the transmission depending on which one you have on the Shadow, but the axles will be a must.

There Is a user at TD that said he swapped a Turbo engine into his '91 Shadow, Carried over the Trans, but left the axles alone. He's driven over 1000 miles now and has had no problem. Why must the axles be swapped? Sorry for all the questions, you've been a great help!

It was my understanding that all turbo cars got stronger axles than the non-turbo cars. I am sure you could get by with them, but the slightest wheel hop will probably tear them apart. I could be wrong though. If they are the same as the turbo cars then you don't have to worry, but it is my understanding that they aren't as stong.

Thx so much for all your help Polygon, I've learned a lot from your posts, you've been a great help!

May I bother you for one more thing?

I'd like your opinion, givin the circumstances, and your knowledge.

Say you have the following cars:

'91 dodge shadow
75,000 miles
Interior: Excellent
Exterior: Fair
Transmission: New
EST. 100hp +/-


'84 dodge daytona turbo
114,000 miles
Interior: Very Poor
Exterior: Poor
Transmission: Original
EST. 150hp +/-


It's time for a change...

Would you swap engines,
Or restore the daytona?
or something else?

my lack of knowledge in this area
leads me to believe you'd make a
better decision in this, knowing you
are more experienced, and know
by making one of these decisions
you know what you are getting into.

I don't want to start something I
can't finish :frown:

Thx Again, for all your help!

This all depends on which transmission you have in your car? Is it an automatic or a manual?

Heh, I would love to have manual transmissions, but they both have automatics. If i remember right, the mechanic reffered to the Transmission in the shadow as the "305" tranny. when i go thte new tranny in the shadow, I wasnt around to "ok" the project, otherwise I would have had him put in a manual! It was pricey anyways....

Well, this poses an interesting problem. I was under the impression that the Daytona was a Turbo II but since it has an automatic it has to be a Turbo I. They only made the Turbo II cars with manuals. If it does indeed have an intercooler than someone has started the Turbo II conversion. I was also hoping you would have the A-568 manual. This completely changes my opinion on what you should do. However, I have no idea what your mechanic meant by the "305" transmission. You car would have to have the A-413, which is the only automatic they used on the four cylinder cars. This isn't bad because you can run a lot of horsepower through the A-413, and you have the best version of it in your Shadow. In this case you wouldn't need to change the axles. This means that the Daytona also has the A-413, but it has the worst version of it and should be scrapped along with its axles. I no longer feel that you should swap engines either. I've done some research on your engine and feel that all you need to do is swap out the connecting rods and pistons and then do the Turbo II conversion. My previous fears were really only valid with earlier TBI engines.

Hey, if that Daytona is an '84, how can it be T II? I thought the turbo 2 engine first came about in '87. Could it be that the car was originally a T I auto that somebody converted (assuming it's really a T2 now)?

Hey, if that Daytona is an '84, how can it be T II? I thought the turbo 2 engine first came about in '87. Could it be that the car was originally a T I auto that somebody converted (assuming it's really a T2 now)?

Yeah, it did, which completely escaped my mind. However, since he is saying that there is an intercooler, it sounds like someone did try to convert it to a Turbo II.

Ok, let me correct myself. Please bare in mind I'm a newbie at automechanics and turbos. A good friend of mine is a car
buff but isnt really an experienced mechanic. He took a look at
it and told me it was an intercooler.

However after further inspection, and Reading about turbos/trannys,
My judgements say it's probably just a second radiator for the
transmission, to keep it cool, since its a turbocharged car.

I've uploaded a picture here:

http://www.cellshark.com/daytonaradiator.gif

both hoses on the small "radiator" up front lead to the transmission.
So in short this could just be a regular TI setup.

Also:


You wrote:
I've done some research on your engine and feel that all you need to do is swap out the connecting rods and pistons and then do the Turbo II conversion.


So let me get this straight. Send the daytona to the boneyard, but
first take out the connecting rods, pistons, turbo, convert the turbo to
a TII and put it in my shadow?

heh, this parts confused me a bit, can you elaborate a little :)
also if you have any links or know of a tutorial that will show me
how to do the proposing "operation" that'd be helpful too. If not, I'd at least like to understand. Remember I'm a newbie, so lamen terms would help.

thx again for all your input!!!! :smile: :smile: :smile:

Yeah, that's a transmission cooler, and that is definitely a Turbo I engine.

When I said to replace the connecting rods and pistons I meant with some good after market ones or a good set from a Turbo II engine 89 and up. I wouldn't use any of the engine parts from the Daytona. I guess I should really ask how much power do you want to run? This will give me the best idea of what internals you should get. As for the Turbo, that is your call. The turbo on your Daytona is a Garrett T03. It is the same turbo as on the Turbo II cars. So it is your call based on the condition of the turbo if you want to use it or not.

As for rebuilding the engine, the Dodge Garage has a great tutorial, or you can grab a Chiltons manual at a local parts store that will have a good guide for that as well.

I'd like to be running at least 150hp in the shadow, and more if possible.
To be clear, we're talking about turbocharging the shadow right?

I suppose I could find some good pistons & connectings rods, but I'd like
to use the Turbo in the daytona. If it doesnt look too bad, maybe ill have it glass bead blasted to remove grime or rust. Then convert it to a TII spec. I've seen that tutorial at the Dodge Garage.

I suppose I'd need a 2.5L turbo Manifold, and a 1pc. Intake Manifold?
In any event, I'm not sure what parts to get besides the rods and pistons.

I've also never taken apart an engine. My experience with them goes
as far as installing a starter, or changing spark plugs / distributor cap.

Is there a tutorial out there that explains the dirty work? What to take off, when, and if i need to flush out the oil or so first?

Thx again!

To be clear, yes, I'm talking about turbo-charging the Shadow. :smile:

If you only want to run around 150HP then I would simply pick up some stock Turbo II rods and pistons. They can handle around 400HP. As for the turbo, I would have it checked out having over 100,000 miles on it, but like I said it is the same turbo that is used on the Turbo II aside from some minor differences. To get the turbo from the Daytona to the Turbo II spec just do the following instruction.

Turbo I Garrett T03 - Turbo II Garrett T03 conversion. (http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_con.html)

You're also going to want to get a Turbo II head and head gasket. While your head has the same casting number the valve springs are weaker and the exhaust valves are weaker as well and will fail within months of being turbo-charged. So getting a Turbo II head will work out better. They are also cross-drilled for better cooling which is why you will need the Turbo II head gasket as well. Then just follow the Turbo II conversion instructions on Gary's site which can be found here. (http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_glhs.html)

Also, ask around the Turbo Dodge forums. I know there are plenty of people that have done the Turbo II conversion and they can be loads of help. I for one haven't done the conversion. My 89 GTC came as a Turbo II stock and the 90 GTC is a Turbo IV.

As far as doing any engine work is concerned the Chilton’s manuals are very detailed and have many pictures to help you along all the way down to an engine rebuild. They are a good idea if you plan to do any work on your car yourself. You can find them at any parts store. As for online tutorials, I don't really know of any but I am sure a quick Google search will turn something up.

Ok Great! I'll grab a chilton's manual and continue my research.
Just to be on the safe side I'm listing the things I should be
looking for.

I'll Need

Turbo II
Turbo II Head
Turbo II Head Gasket
2.5L Chrystler Turbo Manifold
2.5L Intake Manifold
Turbo II Stock Pistons
Turbo II Stock Connecting Rods
Intercooler
'89-'91 Turbo II Wiring Harness


If I left anything out, or put something on there I don't need, please let me know. If this is all, I'll acquire the parts and begin!

one thing came to my is where is the intercooler mentioned...
someone may have installed the direct connection over the manifold intercooler kit.??

do you have any pics of the 84???

rick

Shoot, I just realized I gave you a little bum information. You can't use the stock Turbo II pistons. You need to use the Turbo I pistons.