i have a 91 integra ls w/ a filter and a dohc engine b18a... my friend has a 94 dohc 3000gt. he says he can beat me with ease..what a loser hahahahahaha. i kno i can smoke him jus like that supra smoked that ferrari in the fast and the furious. they started out pretty equally and then that supra jus burned him. yup. what do you guys think? is there any match or no? who's gonna win, my acura integra ls w/ a filter in the dohc b18a engine with like 130 hp and 121 lbs of tq or his stock mitsubishi 3000gt with a dohc engine!! who's do you think?

i'd say you will beat him, but not by much.. i raced a 3000GT with my old 2000 Cavy Z24 and i beat up on them like they were holding my welfare check lol

if its a turbo version your gonna get your ass handed to you, i think you still will though.

Hate to burst your bubble buddy...

The N/A DOHC is 222hp stock, the turbo is 320hp stock. Feel free to give your money away though. :)

the kid has the f&f disease, your car can't even beat a malibu or a contour or a camry, or anything else on the street your filter added 3 hp, and you don't even feel the difference, maybe you can beat a prism or storm or my mongoose but otherwise, you can't win!!!! :lol:

i'm not usally this mean but he deserves that.

Hate to burst your bubble buddy...

The N/A DOHC is 222hp stock, the turbo is 320hp stock. Feel free to give your money away though. :)
Damn, you beat me to it. Anyways, yes, you will lose, I'm sorry.

As for the fast and furious...eh...ah nevermind, it's not worth the effort. Go, race, lose, and learn something please.

u kno in the f&f i dont get wut the whole double clutching thing was about either cause it doesnt really make much of a difference on todays cars :screwy: .... and if u havent noticed... movies are fake..

don't believe everything in movies

yea, i just came here to read this and laugh :lol:





try installin' some nawz then race him ;)

your integra will get murdered by the 3000gt, dont make any bets

first off, as previously stated, dont believe everything you see in fast and furious, they ran that supra in real life, and it ran like a 14.3 on the 1/4

as for the integra, i wouldnt count on beating the DOHC 3/S without some mods, a 5-speed DOHC with a good driver has been proven to hit high 14s stock, most average low 15s. All i know is that i've driven a newer integra before and it wouldnt hang stock vs. stock. Now to your advantage down low, you have shorter gears, so if your going to take one, that is your best bet, but expect to get walked fairly well as you reach 100 mph

he may be annoying but isnt what hes asking a little like this:

1991 Acura Integra LS 8.9 16.6
Horsepower: 130 @ 6000rpm
Torque: 121 @ 5000rpm
Curb Weight: 2560 lbs


1994 Mitsubishi 3000GT SL 8.5 16.4
Horsepower: 222 @ 6000rpm
Torque: 205 @ 4500rpm
Curb Weight: 3351 lbs

non-turbo 3000gt's are dogs, thats what he's talking about i think. so yeah he was annoying but you guys are kind of full of it high 14's stock? what gt are you talking about, the vr4 is hitting like mid 13 - 14 flat and the sl is hitting like 16's

a n/a dohc hits 15s...i have one.

and dogs? it has nearly 100hp on the tegger, it wont be much of a race unless its from a dig and short. like 30 feet.

Just to clairfy, the supra from F&F runs 9.2, with the guy who built it driving it.

In 2F2F they let the people who where in the movie drive them, and he got a 14.X with the supra. It had a single turbo greddy kit on it, so I assume the driver is a complete dumb ass. The fastest time was with an S2000 with an exhaust tip. ran 14.1 or 14.2.

a n/a dohc hits 15s...i have one.

and dogs? it has nearly 100hp on the tegger, it wont be much of a race unless its from a dig and short. like 30 feet.

yeah, and it also weighs 800 lbs more. It'd be a close race.

i think you might have seen a base model 3kgt race and seen how slow it is cause that would be a good race, but as for the sl it runs 15.2 on the average same speed as a eclipse gsx, his integra is gonna get owned. there's a cool chick on our forums who actually went to the track and ran a 15.2 in the 1/4 with her sl.

base model 3kgt good race
sl no comp
vr4.........

ya a base model it will be a good race... but SL... lol... VR4? *walks away* Kids now days...

i think even a base model will beat his ass, with the way he talked i doubt he has any good driving skills, especially when racing, he will prolly lose and then say it was because either his clutch was slipping, his a/c was on full blast and didnt notice, or his NAWWWWWssss didnt kick in when it was supposed too. i think he will get his ass handed to him, yea the other car weighs 800 more pounds, but its got 100 more hp and 80+ more ftlb/tq

when you say base model, your talking about the 97-99 base model with the SOHC engine, 164 hp, 18x lb/ft torque, weighs b/t 3000 and 3100. The other base models have the 222 hp, same as a SL.

16.4 1/4 mile? HA, there are non-turbo automatics than run quicker than that stock, without a problem. The non-turbos mtx, with an average driver will not do worse than a 15.5, i've seen them stock run between a 14.8 and a 15.5. I know of one guy with minimal mods (i believe intake, exhaust, lightweight pulley, lightweight clutch, and maybe cam gears?) ran a 14.1 , but he was also an exceptional driver.

yeah, and it also weighs 800 lbs more. It'd be a close race.

you know...a cheetah ways a hell of a lot more than a house cat

you know...a cheetah ways a hell of a lot more than a house cat

:rofl: lol for some reason that made me laugh

you know...a cheetah ways a hell of a lot more than a house cat

actually damnit that was classic :evillol: :iceslolan :thumbsup:

that was pretty damn funny!!! the cheeta part that is, and in case yall didnt know, i was saying nawws and that other stuff in a sarcastic "he is a retarded ricer" kinda way...just FYI

wow...lol it's funny how some of you actually believed he would win...yeah i saw the race..funny as shit!! i also have a 91 teg but it's auto so i didn't race.. but anyways my friend danny(3000gt) gave him a head start n still beat him by idk enough..well more than enough..all i kno is he won and john(teg) got out of his car all pissed and was like made some excuses like oh my shifter wouldn't go into 3rd blah blah blah..yeah he'd probly beat me but still it was wild to say he could be a 3000gt with only a filter

yea i personally thought the guy in the teg was a dumb ass, hmm lets see, a FWD 4 banger against a V6 RWD....with only a filter?? i bet he got smoked good. which he deserves for thinking a ls with just a filter is fast.

Im stealing that Cheetah Comment as my new anti-ricer quote...

WHat about an RSX type S V.s that 3000 gt.
What do u guys have to say about that?

lol, I drive a 90 Integra, I have a modified factory intake, complete level 10 shift kit ( auto tranny ) and a DC sport header and exaust. I knew I can't beat this dude and he thought he could? Even with the auto, I still run about a 15.8 @ 85mph

yea i personally thought the guy in the teg was a dumb ass, hmm lets see, a FWD 4 banger against a V6 RWD....with only a filter?? i bet he got smoked good. which he deserves for thinking a ls with just a filter is fast.
I think all of the 3kgts are fwd with the exception of the vr-4.....look at the engine bay in one of those peoples sigs (i forgot who)-the engine is transversly mounted.

RSX type S vs. 3000gt sl would probably be close.
RSX type S vs. VR 4 well, that would be no fun...

I think all of the 3kgts are fwd with the exception of the vr-4.....look at the engine bay in one of those peoples sigs (i forgot who)-the engine is transversly mounted.

Yes, the n/a 3S's are FWD, the turbos are AWD.

I may have spelled weigh wrong, but im glad you all like my comment. :)

Just to clerify. Double clutching is not what a lot of people think it is. What you do is when ur in the middle of 4th and u feel that pull is gone (torque is low) pump the clutch while ur foot is still on the gas. I wouldn't do it in any lower gear but thats what it is. This gets your RPMS running high, and is kind of like launching off the start again... but in 4th gear. Hope this helped

aight thats cool, ive never raced an sl but maybe ill give one a try now that i know this, i always thought they were tanks that didnt move, i did a lil research and realize i was wrong, i believe mid 15's for quarter times stock but not much lower than that, i found out there about the same exact stats as a non-turbo 300zx which has 222 hp exactly and weighs 3,219 (about 150 pounds less than the sl) runs 15.5, so maybe exeptional drivers can break 15.5 but whats this about 14's

btw im not sticking up for the fool in the teggy just curious

i own a 96 SL and not cus this is the car i own, but i must admit that though they arent crazy fast, this cars deserve a bit of respect :)

get seat covers, type r floor mats, a fat ass wing, some strobes, and neons...and ur sure to win....and make sure u double clutch and not granny shift

oh yeah...and my brother and his best friend are roomates..my bro has a 2003 toyota tacoma (yes thats a pickup) and he beat his friends stock 3000gt by like 2 car lengths down a like 1/2 mile strip...

must have been an SOHC that he raced

and as for what gto4life said, you do have to give the nonturbos some respect for being able to take out new V6 american cars with bigger engines

no just tacomas are fast for some reason...his friend and neighbor has a 93 integra lsvtec with i/h/e...he even beat that in his stock tacoma....

it gets off the line fast..also hes a really good driver...but it only tops out at like 110

about the tacoma beating an lsvtec, he must be an awesome driver

my ex 91 civic was a b16 with a 6 psi turbo! damn! god damn 3000 beat me but close race! so now you do the caculation!!!! dont even try it man!

Heh sorry man, you're gonna get your ass handed to you. I got a 95 SL and I run 14.9 at the track. Your car is at least a second and half slower than mine, so don't bite off more than you can chew. I raced every type of Integra either stock or with minor mods, and the only one I had trouble with was a Type R who I kept even with.

F&F has made every 17 second car owner capable of beating anything :screwy:

Ok, first off, I can't decide what I am laughing at more, the cheetah comment or the fact that you actually think you will hang with an SL. It has 100hp more then you...before you go posting know what you are talking about...(f&f doesn't count as research)

As well, Just FYI, double clutching is not what creepingdeath was talking about...you don't do it only in 4th gear, you can do it in any gear, it is used when downshifting, you hit the clutch, put it in neutral, hit the gas, match the rpms to what they will go up to, hit the clutch again, and downshift, this way, when your rpms are matched, you dont have that lurching and it saves the life of your tranny, there's a post in the 3000gt forum explaining it all. But essentially, it is good for your car, if you practice it becomes second nature and can be done in a second, and lastly it has no relevance to the reference in F&F because they were drag racing in a straight line, hence no need to downshift. Comments like these are the reason honda/acura owners have a bad name. Do me a favor, I have a 3000gt and a honda, stop running your mouth without knowing what you're talking about.

Just to clerify. Double clutching is not what a lot of people think it is. What you do is when ur in the middle of 4th and u feel that pull is gone (torque is low) pump the clutch while ur foot is still on the gas. I wouldn't do it in any lower gear but thats what it is. This gets your RPMS running high, and is kind of like launching off the start again... but in 4th gear. Hope this helped

You don't go any faster! It just seems like you are going faster because you had lost acceration. Plus that seems like it would be hard on the clutch. Double clutchin if for car with syncros.

Ok, first off, I can't decide what I am laughing at more, the cheetah comment or the fact that you actually think you will hang with an SL. It has 100hp more then you...before you go posting know what you are talking about...(f&f doesn't count as research)

As well, Just FYI, double clutching is not what creepingdeath was talking about...you don't do it only in 4th gear, you can do it in any gear, it is used when downshifting, you hit the clutch, put it in neutral, hit the gas, match the rpms to what they will go up to, hit the clutch again, and downshift, this way, when your rpms are matched, you dont have that lurching and it saves the life of your tranny, there's a post in the 3000gt forum explaining it all. But essentially, it is good for your car, if you practice it becomes second nature and can be done in a second, and lastly it has no relevance to the reference in F&F because they were drag racing in a straight line, hence no need to downshift. Comments like these are the reason honda/acura owners have a bad name. Do me a favor, I have a 3000gt and a honda, stop running your mouth without knowing what you're talking about.

The idea here is to match the engine RPM's to the cars speed in the gear you select, giving you a smooth downshift, & keeping the car's balance. Aftermarket pedal covers make heel-to-toe easier. The clutch pedal cover isn't as important as the brake and accelerator. It can stay rubber, but for the brake and accelerator, you want to have a lot of surface area to work with (a flap on the accelerator is preferred).

This brings the brake & accelerator pedal surfaces closer together, making heel-to-toe much easier.

I'll use a common "downshift from 3rd to 2nd while decelerating before a turn" as an example.

1) Apply Brake
2) Push and keep the clutch down.
3) Take the selector out of 3rd gear.
4) Before you stick-it into 2nd gear, you must rev-match. Since you're decelerating, you have to raise the RPM's slightly because you're going into smaller gear.

*The Heel or the side of the foot, applies the gas. The Toe-side of your right foot applies the brake.* (Heel-To-Toe)

5) Once you've given it the right amount of throttle, move the selector into 2nd gear.
6) Let go of the clutch, then let go of the brake (Be smooth). By this point you should be through with the turn (past the apex) and ready to accelerate.

whoever said that shit about double clutching is a dumbass

okay...dont even worry about trying to doubleclutch unless ur car is older than 1960 or if u driving like a big rig.

F&F has made every 17 second car owner capable of beating anything :screwy:
LMAO!! This is so true. When I race punks in thier riced out Civics, with the clamped on muffler, stickers all over, and chopped springs that bounce like a trampoline, they ask how I beat them so bad. I just say "a stock looking car isn't always stock, couldn't you hear the WHOOOOSH?"

I think a 91 Integra would be destroyed by any 3000GT except the base model.

I just say "a stock looking car isn't always stock, couldn't you hear the WHOOOOSH?"


Hey thats what I usually say after a race. I am waiting to show up a VR-4 3000GT, someday it will happen.

kinked, nobody said you had 2 double clutch, it is simply a better driving technique that prolongs the life of your syncros. Check out the link:
http://www.driversedge.com/dblcltch.htm
You don't have to do it, but it definantly is a good habit to get into.

everybody double clutch.... it'll give you 50 more hp and 13 second 1/4 mile times in a stock civic. and if you don't believe me, its true, vin desel proved that to us when he was driving under the semi. LOL


sorry i had to go along with the f&f theme. buwhahaha

pair that with a momo shift knob...and you'll take down the new enzo ferrari....

Get ready to have your ass handed to ya. Maybe you should know 121 lbs of torque and 130 hp isn't a lot. A SL 3000GT engine size is 3.0 L and gets 222 hp around 6000 rpm, and at 4500 rpm it gets 205 lbs of torque. The VR-4 gets 315 lbs of torque at 4500 rpm and 320 hp at 6000 rpm. You'd get smoked. :grinno:

As for that Fast and Furious comment - you need to stop believing everything in movies. :loser:

i almost feel like making a new thread for this topic but i need some answers, that said let me repost something:

"aight thats cool, ive never raced an sl but maybe ill give one a try now that i know this, i always thought they were tanks that didnt move, i did a lil research and realize i was wrong, i believe mid 15's for quarter times stock but not much lower than that, i found out there about the same exact stats as a non-turbo 300zx which has 222 hp exactly and weighs 3,219 (about 150 pounds less than the sl) runs 15.5, so maybe exeptional drivers can break 15.5 but whats this about 14's"

-i have beaten a non turbo 300 zx(stick, no mods), and i know my 1/4 mile time is not lower than 15 seconds
-im not talking about modded sl's, i want to know if you guys are talking about stock ones
-how can it average the same times as the gsx when it weighs 300 lbs more with roughly the same power
-Nesryn, what mods do you have, and im pretty sure the type r runs a little lower than 14.9, so how did you keep even
-RSX vs. SL, close race - rsx-s vs. sl - not so close
- i will be looking, and i mean looking for an SL to race, because this all seems ludacris to me
i want to finish up by saying this post has nothing to do with the origanol, i just have a few grievances with some of the info being posted

people who dont own sl's please tell me if i am wrong
people who do own sl's please tell me why i am wrong, without lying

300lbs more and 20hp more. not sure how much you know about cars and speed and what not, but speed factors are a lot more than just weight and hp, gear ratios, aerodynamics(very underestimated) how well its put together, i mean you just don't understand how many things matter in speed, most sl's run average of 15.3 an eclipse average is more like 15.1
i gotta go right now but when i come back i can give you cars that weigh more but are faster than other cars and cars with more hp that are slower than less hp cars.

kinked, nobody said you had 2 double clutch, it is simply a better driving technique that prolongs the life of your syncros. Check out the link:
http://www.driversedge.com/dblcltch.htm
You don't have to do it, but it definantly is a good habit to get into.

i didnt say it was stupid to double clutch...but the guy who tried to explain what it was is an idiot..thats not what double clutching is...

anyway...how would double clutching help you in a race unless you are downshifting?

btw i double clutch almost everytime i turn onto a slower road...when i downshift

i believe the 15's just not these guys coming in here saying 14.xx

Close Race My Ass. Race For 2 G's And Tell Us Who Wins!!!

-i have beaten a non turbo 300 zx(stick, no mods), and i know my 1/4 mile time is not lower than 15 seconds
-im not talking about modded sl's, i want to know if you guys are talking about stock ones
-how can it average the same times as the gsx when it weighs 300 lbs more with roughly the same power
-Nesryn, what mods do you have, and im pretty sure the type r runs a little lower than 14.9, so how did you keep even
-RSX vs. SL, close race - rsx-s vs. sl - not so close
- i will be looking, and i mean looking for an SL to race, because this all seems ludacris to me
i want to finish up by saying this post has nothing to do with the origanol, i just have a few grievances with some of the info being posted

people who dont own sl's please tell me if i am wrong
people who do own sl's please tell me why i am wrong, without lying

First off, I got no mods. I'm completely stock. Second, an RSX vs an SL is no race at all. My friend beats them in his Civic DX. An RSX-s is a closer race, but it will basically come down to driver. Thirdly, all the times I found for the Type-R were 14.8-15.1.... Guys honestly... If you've never raced an SL, just take it from someone who has one and has raced the cars you're talking about. Stop havin misconceptions about our cars like everyone else does.

im not really interested in this thread and my reply is off topic, but a stock civic dx beating a stock rsx :screwy: , yeah ok

explain this dx vs. rsx? story, i know there has to be more to it, also, i guess i have to believe you cause i dont think someone would lie for this long, anyways i just dont understand why the 300zx non turbo has the same exact stats as the sl (-150 lbs) yet it seems to be so much slower

Different gear ratios, aerodynamics, there's lots of things that go into a race besides hp/weight ratio. I feel like I am repeating what has already been said...

youngvr4...i knew it had already been said somewhere in this post
kinked, sorry for the misunderstanding. And you are correct, double clutching would not help you the least bit in a straightaway race starting at a deadstop.

lol no way man, i didnt really feel like looking into the gear ratio's i just figured seeing as nissan has a much better history with performance cars that the ratios would be better, ill take a look into that btw, im not positive about the aerodynamics (never seen either in a wind tunnel) but just taking a quick glance it seems that the 300zx would be more aerodynamic, and then the sl still has to take its extra fat into account, every 100 lbs more is like 1/10th in the quarter added, anyone got a timeslip for a stock or minor bolt-on sl?

i can't exactly explain it, but i've seen it time after time that a stock SL or base DOHC 3000 race a 300ZX and with equal drivers, the 3000 has won every time

just thought of something, here's an idea
3000gt is FWD, 300ZX is rear wheel drive, therefore the 300ZX has a greater drivetrain loss due to more moving parts. And thats probably what determines a lot of it is the fact that it doesnt matter how much power your making to the crank, what matters is how much your making to the wheels, and the reason the 3000 will edge out the 300ZX everytime is that it gets more power to the ground.

thanks man, that makes a little more sense

Just for a little clarification, I wasn't suggesting that you should research the two cars individual gear ratios...although you could if you wish, my point was that each car has a different gear ratio.

If you understand the basics of gears, or gear trains, you know that they have a primary driver gear and the secondary gears. Each gear is a different size with different numbers of teeth. As the teeth interact and turn each other, the smaller one must rotate quicker because of its smaller circumference(hence higher rpms) then the larger gear. The ratios are the comparisons of the turns of the input driver gear to the turns of the output gear. For example a gear ratio of 3:1 (an 8 toothed gear turning a 24 toothed gear must turn 3x to get the output gear to make one full turn) This means 3x slower rpms of the output gears, but 3x more torque. (Notice that when you are in 1st and 2nd gear you get more torque then 4th, 5th or 6th, and that your engine rpms drop when you shift up. When you shift up, say from 3rd to 4th, you are shifting to a larger output gear and your ratio goes down, hence engine rpms drop and you feel less torque.

With all of that explained...poorly, my point was that throughout each of the 6 gears(in my vr4) the gear ratios are different from one another. As well, the gear ratios I have will be different from those you have in your car, even if both our cars were 6spd.
So the Sl and the 300zx have different 1st gear ratios, different 2nd gear ratios...and so on. Therefore, they are producing differing amounts of torque throughout the race. Simply because I have a maximum of 315lbft of torque, doesn't mean that I have that much the whole race, only at a certain engine rpm in a certain gear. So the point youngvr4 and i were trying to make is that every second of the race, the two cars will be producing varying amounts of torque and power that might not necessarily be equal, even if their max hp and torque are equal. They will reach those maximums at different times. So you cannot simply compare the maximum power vs. weight ratio to determine the winner.

yeah, thanks for clarifying some of that, but i just wanted to make a point that the nissan probably had a better gear ratio for acceleration than the mistu, thats all, i could be wrong still, btw im still waiting for the civic dx vs. rsx race story

-ps. i understand gear ratios alot better now, thanks man!

Just to make a correction to what I said, I meant to say that when shifting up from 3rd to 4th, you go to a smaller (not larger) output gear, so your ratio goes down and you feel less torque.

Also, with your gear ratios you cannot make them too aggressive otherwise you will not have a high top end, that is why a 6spd is nice because it opens up a whole new opportunity for top end. My vr-4 is pretty aggressive 1st-3rd under wide open throttle it puts you in the back of your seat. But at the same time, I can cruise at 100 in 6th gear and only be at 3,000rpms which is nice if you have a habit of speeding on the highway, it still conserves gas pretty well. I hope all that helped.

lol 80 in 5th 4000 rpms haha

wow thats alot of pages!!! but a lot of people on here are saying this guy has a chance with a base(SOHC 97-99) ........ it would be a drivers race. think about it. the integ is puting out max 130 hp at the crank. the SOHC puts out MAX 135 to the ground!!!!! with the extra 800+or- pounds i think that makes it a drivers race.

also have some crappy 1/8 mi. slips to prove my 222BHP/175 to the ground will not be beat by any 130BHP+ a filter!! :nono:

ok well ill hopefully help put an end to this discussion, i live in a town of 14K and i just pulled up next to an SL not sure what year or if it was auto or stick or not, but i drive a stock GSR and i will race him soon and ill let yall know, but there was to much traffic to race him today.

i say u just smuther ur car w/ stickers....

http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/ghetto7o2azn/fandf.bmp

when paul walker says it, u kno its tru :iceslolan

All this SL this SL that talk is hurting my head...

Okay, let's look at this:
(I of course, am referring to the gentleman who claimed to have hung with an Integra Type R)

Acura Integra Type R
Curb Weight: 2639 lbs
Horsepower: 195
lb-per-HP: 13.53

Mitsubishi 3000GT SL
Curb Weight: 3280 lbs
Horsepower: 218
lb-per-HP: 15.04

How is that even close? If you guys bring back that gear-ratio, drag-coefficient bullshit, think about the fact that the ITR is one of the most aggressively geared road cars in existence today, which is necessary to keep the car's high-peak motor in full-boil.

Not saying I don't believe the race happened, just saying that it wasn't because of the respective cars.

Just for shits-and-giggles, let's look at the N/A 300ZX:

Nissan 300ZX base
Curb weight: 3186
Horsepower: 222
lb-per-HP: 14.35

Now, since you guys came up with the gear-ratio thing, to explain why a 3000GT SL will beat a 300ZX base, why don't we explore that?

---300ZX (base) 5-spd--3000GT SL 5-spd
Final----4.083:1------------3.97:1-------
1st-----3.21---------------3.07---------
2nd-----1.93---------------1.74---------
3rd------1.30---------------1.10--------
4th-----1.00----------------0.82--------
5th------0.75---------------0.66--------

Now, who has more aggressive gearing???

Here's my sources:
3000GT SL data:
http://www.3kgt.com/dimensions.shtml
http://www.team3s.com/FAQtransratios.htm

300ZX (base) data:
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1992/nissan/300zx/1519/specs.html?tid=edmunds.u.prices.leftsidenav..6.Nis san*
http://www.300zx.org.uk/gear_ratios.htm

ITR data:
http://www.edmunds.com/used/2000/acura/integra/12716/specs.html?tid=edmunds.u.prices.leftsidenav..6.Acu ra*

dont be so silly carrrnut, the gentleman who hung with a type r runs a 14.9 at the track - stock :screwy: , im still a little speculative on that since i have yet to see a timeslip, but they seem to believe him over on the 3000gt forum

this post is just so i can become an enthusiast

who said something about a sl beating a type-r? why have i seen a sl run 15.4 at the track? why have i seen a sl run same speed as your sentra? what does a non turbo 300zx run in the 1/4?

point is a sl will beat a 91 ls integra no problem.

oh and please reply back soon.

point is a sl will beat a 91 ls integra no problem.


not always, depends on how well the drivers are. honestly, im getting tired of all these posts, if any of u sl owners live in the california bay area and want to race me, i'll be happy to give it a shot. i drive a 92 ls with 140 hp and around 121 lbs/tq and haven't got much done to my car except some minor bolts on, but again, i got 18's on so it's not gaining much at all.

don't know how fast the 3000 gt sl's are but their 1/4 mile should be similar to the 300zx non-turbo correct? if im wrong, please correct me. well anyways, i have raced a 300zx non-turbo from a stop and have actually beat it, although not by much though. heres how it got started, i drove to a stop light and on my left was of course the fairlady with aftermarket exhaust and some sticker across the front windshield. now i had no intentions of racing it since im thinking those things are pretty fast, and i had no idea if it's the turbo or non-turbo version, by looking from the side.

when the light turn green, i immediately heard tire squeeling from the z while i on the other hand took off normally, but in the last milli sec decided to just say screw it and floored the pedal. now peeling out b4 a launch isn't a very good thing since u lose traction easily and can even be stuck there just burning rubber if your inexperience by reving your rpm's too high. my launch wasn't all that either since i didn't intend to race, i did though get ahead of him a little by not peeling out, quickly he caught up to me, and thats where i floored it, slowly inch by inch i moved on ahead until i had to get on the on ramp towards the freeway. to give an estimated car length, it was about 1/4 of a car lead, not much but a win is still a win, and the look on those guys faces as i headed towards the onramp was unforgettable, guess they thought a honda would never beat them. my inference would be since i beat it that it must be the n/a version because if it was twin-turbo, that thing should have left me in the dust easy.

my point of this story, its not always how fast the car, but also how well the drivers are and if they get a good launch.

i completly agree with that :smile: i'm just making sure all that stuff carrnut was speakin on wasn't directed towards me, i raced a integra sl in my moms contour sport and won, actually its on a movie called, on the scene fully loaded. and i've raced more than one so i know first hand on there speed. on the other hand i have been in one of my most hardest races against an integra, with a turbo. i have nothing against tegs but for the most part, a sl is faster than a 91 ls teg. and sl's do run mid to low 15.'s. thats all i'm saying :)

who said something about a sl beating a type-r? why have i seen a sl run 15.4 at the track? why have i seen a sl run same speed as your sentra? what does a non turbo 300zx run in the 1/4?

point is a sl will beat a 91 ls integra no problem.

oh and please reply back soon.
I never said they weren't low 15-second cars, or that they weren't capable of high-14's. Hell, I've run a best of 15.00, and my power-to-weight is less than the SL's.

I was just commenting on the story about the SL and the ITR hanging together, like it was the most normal thing in the world. Also, there was a statement made about the SL consistently beating 300ZX base models, which would be impossible, unless it was the same, crappy driver that was being raced, or if it was the 2+2 style that was being raced, or maybe it was even an automatic. The 300ZX 2+2's weighed in at 3313 lbs, heavier than an SL.

It's just those comments, when taken out of context, can lead somebody that doesn't know better to believe that an N/A 300ZX will always be slower than an SL, or that the SL is as fast as an ITR with equal driving, which is just not true.

Other than that, I completely agree that the Integra would be utterly humiliated, and if we are to believe one of the posters in this thread, already has been.

Fanb01s annoy me (not referring to you, youngvr4).

understood :smile:

this is wack..dident someone already post this somwhere before? I can't belive that guy would make a refrence to F&F in this place...

when the light turn green, i immediately heard tire squeeling from the z while i on the other hand took off normally, but in the last milli sec decided to just say screw it and floored the pedal. now peeling out b4 a launch isn't a very good thing since u lose traction easily and can even be stuck there just burning rubber if your inexperience by reving your rpm's too high. my launch wasn't all that either since i didn't intend to race, i did though get ahead of him a little by not peeling out, quickly he caught up to me, and thats where i floored it, slowly inch by inch i moved on ahead until i had to get on the on ramp towards the freeway. to give an estimated car length, it was about 1/4 of a car lead, not much but a win is still a win, and the look on those guys faces as i headed towards the onramp was unforgettable, guess they thought a honda would never beat them. my inference would be since i beat it that it must be the n/a version because if it was twin-turbo, that thing should have left me in the dust easy.

my point of this story, its not always how fast the car, but also how well the drivers are and if they get a good launch.

How long was the race to the on-ramp? 60'?

For you people that think its all hp/weight, they didnt mention it in your beloved F&F, so where did you come up with this nonsense? Do you think an 8hp, 100lbs car could beat mine? If you do, I have some lovely land in the everglades for sale...

How long was the race to the on-ramp? 60'?


it was about atleast an 1/8 of a mile. lets see, we were at a stop light, we raced to towards another stop light and it was green still, then from that light it's about another 20 or so feet b4 starting to merge towards the on ramp. so little bit over a block, not sure how many feet that is.

For you people that think its all hp/weight, they didnt mention it in your beloved F&F, so where did you come up with this nonsense?

Not that I even liked FnF, but are you saying power-to-weight is irrelevant?

Now, I'VE got some beachfront property for you, here in AZ...

Do you think an 8hp, 100lbs car could beat mine?

In a word, yes. Of course, it would need the right gears, and where the hell would you find a 5 lb driver to keep the lbs-per-hp down?

How do you think a Kawasaki ZX12R, with less WHP and WTQ than an Integra Type R, run into the 9's?

How long was the race to the on-ramp? 60'?

For you people that think its all hp/weight, they didnt mention it in your beloved F&F, so where did you come up with this nonsense? Do you think an 8hp, 100lbs car could beat mine? If you do, I have some lovely land in the everglades for sale...

If it was 100 lbs with driver, then yes.

http://www.bondurantsuperkarts.com/karts.html

The 200 lbs is without driver. Throw in a 180 lb lump behind the steering wheel, and you have a 380 lb, 32 HP vehicle that will do 0-100 MPH in 6 sec.

I took this school last winter, it's an eye opening experience and well worth the money.

Discochime, your only mad cause your cars a fatass, and only to you hp/weight wouldnt matter

I can't believe this thread is still going.

Not that I even liked FnF, but are you saying power-to-weight is irrelevant?

Nope, im not saying that, thanks for asking though. :) I basically said its not 100% of what determines speed/times. If it were, there would be no need to race, we could just bust out dyno sheets, scales, and calculators. Wouldnt that be fun!

If it was 100 lbs with driver, then yes.

Nope. The weight of the driver in the tegger or whatever light car we are talking about is going to be roughly the same as my weight. Therefore the 8hp, 100lbs car would have to have the same driver.

But even if we had the proper size driver, hp/weight does not determine peformance in a perfectly linear fashion. Take physics.

The 200 lbs is without driver. Throw in a 180 lb lump behind the steering wheel, and you have a 380 lb, 32 HP vehicle that will do 0-100 MPH in 6 sec.

Thats cool, but what does it run in the 1/4, 1/2, etc? I believe that a much lighter car could crush me in a short distance (though maybe not a TT/VR4 because of the AWD launch).

Discochime, your only mad cause your cars a fatass, and only to you hp/weight wouldnt matter

My car weighs 300lbs more than yours, and has about 50 more horses. What a TANK! Ive spent under $100 in mods by the way.

i'll race a teggy in my SL automatic. Need to wait about 3 weeks til i can get the car back on the road, redoing some stuff right now. :biggrin:

3,351-2,667= 684
im cool now btw, i dont care what you guys run anymore, ill just have to find a willing sl to race - wish me luck!

Nope, im not saying that, thanks for asking though. :) I basically said its not 100% of what determines speed/times. If it were, there would be no need to race, we could just bust out dyno sheets, scales, and calculators. Wouldnt that be fun!
Wow, that's a nice rationalization. Bravo.

Like I said, I don't doubt the claims of speed you guys have, it's the seeming over-confidence you guys seem to get...where cars that are simply faster than yours suddenly become your equals, and the only explanation you seem to come up with (despite all the hard facts) is: "power-to-weight isn't everything".

Okay. There's gearing...which I debunked, showing that the N/A 300ZX is just geared more aggressively...yet you'll probably claim that the SL is still faster.

Plus, you seem to have this persecution complex about you where you seem to have a sense of "us against the world" about you. The "everybody thinks our cars are slow, so we must defend it vehemently" fallacy.

We're all car guys here man, and unlike most other boards, we accept all cars. It's the owners that usually ruin it for them (the cars).

Come correct. We're more than glad to see ignorance thwarted on this board, but please, correct only those that need correcting, and try not to preach about how AWESOME your car is. Most of us regulars already know. Never mind the children.

3,351-2,667= 684
im cool now btw, i dont care what you guys run anymore, ill just have to find a willing sl to race - wish me luck!

My car weighs 3060, thanks. It NEVER weighed 3351, it was 3160 stock.

Tran - ok, I will leave. :)

Ok, lets get this straight. I owned a 94 base 3000gt stock. This crap about an integra being faster is bull. Remember there is no replacement for displacement. Plus most of the people who own an Integra think they know how to race with their tricked out car with intake and exuast, and an extra 400 pounds on ground effects and sound systems. There is no way an Intergra would ever beat anything. A prism would be a hard race for the Integra. J/K bout that one!

Thats cool, but what does it run in the 1/4, 1/2, etc? I believe that a much lighter car could crush me in a short distance (though maybe not a TT/VR4 because of the AWD launch).

If the kart can do 0-100 in 6 sec, then it has to have a speed at the end of the 1/4 close to its 120 MPH top speed. By 1/2 mi, a car that can get up to about 130-135 by the end of the 1/2 mi will have caught up. If you have a car that will do 0-60 in 6 sec, that means that at 6 sec the cart is going 40 MPH faster than you, and is about 100 yards ahead. That's a lot of distance to make up.

i guess no one here lives is the bay area then, huh? well im going to search for an sl then, but if im going to find a real opponent and using the steretype that 26b 600hp use, then i guess racing all the old farts that own a 3000 gt sl doesn't count right? i don't like to talk trash, i would rather take action instead, so while u most of u guys talk your talk, i'll be walking the walk. and no i don't have any body kits or a 400 pound sytem.

oh displacement is great, but if its power to weight ratio sucks then the displacement is basically pointless. y do u think import racer swap motors into lighter cars, an example, ls/vtec conversion into a civic. this potent combination, if done correctly it can hit 13's, and 12's all motor. :2cents: yes i do have proof if u want to see.

the whole reason i got on this discussion is because with all the facts stated i wasn't sure how these sl's were running such low times compared to every other car in their class - that been said i have gotten over it and noticed that there are way to many variables to even prove anything about this topic, other than going to the track or actually racing - about the weight thing, im impressed, i just went on autotrader and got the stats on a 96 SL, that was a dumb move on my part because i never even found out what exact car you have :uhoh: , btw im curious as to what mods you have on your sl, i know you spent less than 100 but im just curious. i dont think a reply to 26B_600HP is neccesary - peace dahgs

Zack - 94 Stealth R/T is my car. Started at 3160ish. Ive stripped out about 100lbs. Once I get the planned CF hood, light battery, forged rims, and lightweight pulley, thats another 175lbs or so, some of which is rotational. I could replace the front seats and remove the back for another ~100lbs or so, but the leather is just so darn nice...

So after my planned stuff we are looking at about a 2900lbs car.

The mods ive done so far are a K&N FIPK and replacing the cat with a 2.5" testpipe. My car is making about 230-235hp. If all goes as planned, it should be putting down 325-350 at the wheels in a year or two, and hopefully ill be able to stop myself there. :) This is for a total cost (including car) of under $15k.

3S's arent dogs at all, yet everyone seems to think so. Thats why we tend to come to these forums when there are threads like this.

ls/vtec conversion into a civic. this potent combination, if done correctly it can hit 13's, and 12's all motor. yes i do have proof if u want to see.
How is it "done correctly" I've never understood that. Are you talking about the way you put it in? If one bolt isn't tight as tight on a civic compared to another one with the same swap, its going to be the difference between a 14 second car and a 13 second car?

How is it "done correctly" I've never understood that. Are you talking about the way you put it in? If one bolt isn't tight as tight on a civic compared to another one with the same swap, its going to be the difference between a 14 second car and a 13 second car?

it's the way u assembled the motor. some people tend to just focus on the conversion and be cheap about their parts so they can have it back on the streets asap, but they don't pay attention to the little details such as replacing the clutch, new water pump, timing belt, oil pump, bearings, gsr ecu, cam gears, etc. etc., the list goes on and on. if assemble correctly it can be a bit costly, but what u have in the end is a fast A$$ monster, this is why this swap is known as the "frankenstein."

and remember, a 220hp gutted 2000 lb civic is quite a contrast from a 220hp 3000+ lb mustang. another analogy which is probably more easier to visualize would be a 140hp integra @2600 lb or a 240hp integra @2600 lb. of course the one with the more power wins even though the weight is the same. y? it's all about power to weight ratio.

here's a link so u can see the set up, the one here had done 12 flat in the 1/4 mile, but the ls/vtec has potential to even hit 11's in a full race setting, although no one is going to drive around in a raced out civic on the streets.
http://www.importreview.com/reviews/lsvtec.html

oh i forgot, all this power to weight ratio is definately great but u also have to factor in all the other many variables such as driver experience, launch, weather, tires, etc., etc.

Ah I got you, basically what you're saying is making sure everything is in perfect working condition and the parts are of good quality, before you drop the engine in. That versus other people taking shortcuts, and using old and worn parts that are probably from a previously owned car or just junk lying around in the garage.

exactly!

woah man, i just looked it up and it seems the stealths are 200 lbs lighter than the sl's stock! thats a big difference

Wow, all those pages and not a single person mentioned TORQUE. My god people

Look, people like to take pride in their cars and their make. But seriously, stop with all the number racing.

Just get out there and do it!

Tran_NSX (do you own an NSX): Its very simple, you car stock runs in the high 16's, the SL runs in the low 15's. Thats just it, the only things that can change those numbers are driver skill and modifications.

Number racing... what is wrong with you people...

Wow, all those pages and not a single person mentioned TORQUE. My god people
Because when you mention TQ, you have to take into account more complex things like gearing, and how it multiplies a car's TQ, and in what part of the powerband the TQ peaks at. Also, there's the TQ band, in relation to the gearing.

It's simply simpler to talk about HP, as HP is the ultimate result of TQ and gearing, hence the actual power the car is making. TQ differences only illustrate the character of the cars, and the differences in how they should be driven.

A good example is an E36 M3 with 240HP, and nearly as much TQ, against a pre-2004 Honda S2000, with a similar HP output, but with only 152ft-lbs of TQ.

Both cars have very different characteristics, with the S2000 needing a driver willing to rev the piss out of the car to extract the car's potential, while the E36 doesn't need as much prodding to go as fast...but in the end, both cars have similar acceleration figures, with an edge to the E36, as it is easier to drive fast.

Also, about the "number racing" comment, not everybody has access to both cars in question while the debate is still fresh, so mechanical specifics can then be pointed out, to show the characteristics of each car.

That's how every car is borne out, with numbers. Automotive engineers are THE biggest "number racers", period.

Speaking strictly for myself, I only mentioned hard numbers, I did not speculate based on some anomalous race I might have witnessed, or participated in...as I know for a fact that MANY variables exist in actual races, not the least of which, is the condition of the car and driver.

Wow, all those pages and not a single person mentioned TORQUE. My god people

Look, people like to take pride in their cars and their make. But seriously, stop with all the number racing.

Just get out there and do it!

Tran_NSX (do you own an NSX): Its very simple, you car stock runs in the high 16's, the SL runs in the low 15's. Thats just it, the only things that can change those numbers are driver skill and modifications.

Number racing... what is wrong with you people...

i didn't mention tq since it would make my little explanation and example of power to weight ratio even more confusing so i left it out for a reason.

as far as owning an nsx, no. i could, but won't have enough to pay for college, so i rather wait till im done. in a way it's my dream car, furthermore even i wanted to drive one i could since my uncle owns one.

as far as a stock 3rd gen teg ls goes, they can hit 16 flat on the 1/4 mile, higher or lower depending on driver. i had even raced one myself and beat that in my 2nd gen, so that kinda tells you my driving experience. now i know my teg isn't some fast a$$ car, but it can definately hold its own. here i found some 1/4 stats of each car
to get a general idea of each car.

http://www.car-stats.com/stats/search/choosemake.aspx

1992 3000 gt: 1/4 mile -15.8 sec

1994 integra ls: 16 sec

this could have been the one i raced for all u skeptics
1991 300zx 2+2: 15.9 sec

a follow up:

today at my college, i found a 3000 gt and the driver was in his 20's like me backing out a parking space, right away i thought this is it, here's my chance. i drove up to him did some small talk and then asked him if his gt was the twin turbo or non-turbo? he replied it was the non-turbo, so then i asked him for a favor.

"sure, what is it?" he questioned back.

"can we by any chance race? i want to see if your car is fast or not."

"no thanks man" he replied, "my car gots no guts."

i was baffled and even stunned he said such a thing. i pleaded and pleaded but to no avail, so we said our fair wells and that was it. i didn't mind if i lose, but i guess he did. the comment he made disappointed me a bit, especially coming from a 3000gt owner, but oh well better luck next time.

I can't believe this thread is still going.

...

...
:werd:

"3rd gen teg ls goes, they can hit 16 flat on the 1/4 mile"
Now I don't agree with that I've blown the doors off one of those with my S-10, which is supposed to be a 16 flat second vehicle. Actually a 2wd, 2-door, 5-speed can do a 16 second flat. I have an extended cab and auto, at the time I also had absolutely nothing done to the truck.

thats not saying much, if i had the sl i too would say my car has no balls, because i'm used too speed.

Just for clarification, there are 2 types of N/A 3000gts. the vr4 is TT, the SLs are all DOHC 222hp, the bases from 91-96 are the same as the SLs, but 97-99 the base 3000gts dropped to SOHC 161hp. So I am simply asking which this guy "who gots no guts" had.

Just for clarification, there are 2 types of N/A 3000gts. the vr4 is TT, the SLs are all DOHC 222hp, the bases from 91-96 are the same as the SLs, but 97-99 the base 3000gts dropped to SOHC 161hp. So I am simply asking which this guy "who gots no guts" had.

i couldn't recall what he exactly said about the year but i believe he said 95. my sister who was with me at the time didn't recall it either but she thought he had said 95 or 97.




"3rd gen teg ls goes, they can hit 16 flat on the 1/4 mile"
Now I don't agree with that I've blown the doors off one of those with my S-10, which is supposed to be a 16 flat second vehicle. Actually a 2wd, 2-door, 5-speed can do a 16 second flat. I have an extended cab and auto, at the time I also had absolutely nothing done to the truck.

if u haven't noticed i also wrote down higher or lower depending on driver. the s-10, are they faster than silverados'? i went against a couple silverados' not because i wanted to, but because they just kept on revving on me. everytime i win by at least 2 car lengths. are u sure the teg was racing? are u sure it wasn't an automatic? are u sure u beat the car and not the driver?

The Mitsubishi 3000 GT is Mitsubishi's answer to F Bodies like the camaro. If you have a 3000 GT VR4 and you race an Integra the VR4 will win. Even a base model 3K GT will smoke the Integra.

You just cant outrun a 3000 GT with an Integra. The 3000 GT has more power and torque as well as a couple more cylinders than the Integra.

You got to remember also that the 3000 GT is RWD and will start faster than the Integra.

Now if you would have an Integra Type-R with the following mods:

Turbocharger
Greddy Cat-Back
4 to 1 Headers
Good Tires + Stiff Suspension

Then you would have a good chance even against a VR4. Otherwise the 3000 GT is one of the roughest diamonds in Mitsubishi's arsenal.

sl's are fwd

The Mitsubishi 3000 GT is Mitsubishi's answer to F Bodies like the camaro. If you have a 3000 GT VR4 and you race an Integra the VR4 will win. Even a base model 3K GT will smoke the Integra.

You just cant outrun a 3000 GT with an Integra. The 3000 GT has more power and torque as well as a couple more cylinders than the Integra.

You got to remember also that the 3000 GT is RWD and will start faster than the Integra.

Now if you would have an Integra Type-R with the following mods:

Turbocharger
Greddy Cat-Back
4 to 1 Headers
Good Tires + Stiff Suspension

Then you would have a good chance even against a VR4. Otherwise the 3000 GT is one of the roughest diamonds in Mitsubishi's arsenal.


Did you say "headers" and a turbo?

Did you say "headers" and a turbo?

We already talked about this in another thread. Turbo cars do have "headers" persay, but most turbo people dont call them headers. They call them something I cant think of right now.

no, turbo cars do not have headers, they have a turbo manifold. u can't put a header from a natural aspirated vehicle on a turbo car, and visa versa, period.

with nexagen's post, seem to me like he is talking out of his a$$. :2cents:

if u haven't noticed i also wrote down higher or lower depending on driver. the s-10, are they faster than silverados'? i went against a couple silverados' not because i wanted to, but because they just kept on revving on me. everytime i win by at least 2 car lengths. are u sure the teg was racing? are u sure it wasn't an automatic? are u sure u beat the car and not the driver?
I think my S-10 could beat a 4x4 Silverado but if it were a 2wd, 2-door, base Silverado with the 5.3l V8 (280 hp) I imagine I would get my ass kicked. Yes he was racing, yes it was a stick, and no I don't think he messed up. I obviously got a better shot out of the whole and simply just kept pulling from that.

222 bhp vs 130 bhp?

Well I guess you might have a chance due to your extensive modding BUT... I wouldnt bet to much on it.

First of all, Daveshapell... I raced a Z-24, it wasn't even funny how bad I smoked him. 2nd, Ricerocket... my friend has an Integra GS-R (3rd Gen.), He had a few engine mods and pulled not even a car length ahead. You have a 2nd Gen. integra, not even gs-r, with 130 hp. A new filter won't even give you more than 2 HP, maybe .05 at the wheels. Come on, it wouldn't even be a race. My friend with the Gs-r wants to race you now. You're LS is not fast, this is almost not even worth replying. By the way, I have the SL, if I had a VR4, it DEFINITELY wouldn't be worth replying.

Bro...you can't yell a year and a half into the past.

Don't go diggin up old threads, check the dates so you don't look like such a dumbass.

Oh yea...welcome to AF.

Yeah!!

Oh yeah, post whore post# 2046 :biggrin: