hey guys, i am getting an imprezza, just not sure if i should get 2.5 liter rs, or any other imprezza with a 2.2 liter engine. which ever one i am getting, i am totally rebuilding the engine, ;and in time trhowwing on a turbo+intercooler. i was just wondering if any of you guys knew if the extra .3 liters is really worth it with what i am doing, or woth an average of 3k-4k extra for used.

I am presented w/ the same choice as you and have been debating over the 2.5 and wrx for about three months and have finally decided on the 2.5. Why? well i am going for max power and definately think the extra .3 liters is worth it. Think of it in honda terms for a sec...honda civic 1.6 pretty f-ing slow...acura integra gsr pretty fast and alot more horsepower and that is w/ only .2L difference. Now you can't make the same comparisson w/ the 2,5 and wrx because one is turbo charged, but if you were to put the same sized turbo on each motor then obviously you see which will be faster. Now in my case i am looking for a great deal of power and was woried about the 2.5's open deck design being a weakness, but thanks to the great people over at I-Club.com's thread about this same issue informed me that there will always be a stronger design but if the one you are using hasn't been known to fail then there isn't a problem. So basically there is no conclusive evidence that says you can't run high boost high power in a EJ25. I am in no way affiliated w/ i-club but after reading your poste i must say that you are going to be presented w/ a very complicated and expensive project and want you to under stand what exactly you need to do so i highly recommend going to i-club.com and reading through their Aftermarket Forced-Induction forum. Peace and good luck

Please, don't show your ignorance. There are MANY more factors in engine design that determine power rather than just capacity. Did you consider bore VS stroke, compression ratios, camshaft profiles, number of cams per cylinder bank, injector rates, retarded ingition etc. The list goes on. And as for the Honda 1.6 litre engine being slow? Let's be a little more specific. If your talking about the ZC series engine, then I will agree. It's just anaverage 1.6. However, if you were referring to the B16A, fuck off. It had THE BEST power/litre ratio for 8 years!! And even then it was only overtaken by ANOTHER HONDA! So please, if you're going to spout 'knowledge' at least make sure you clearly earmark what is your opinion and what if fact. Peace. Oz.

well, if you are going to turbo/intercool, and all that good stuff. i would get the 2.5rs, mostly because it has the hood scoop, and you can add a top mount intercooler. I heard that was supposed to be better than a regular one....maybe even get an Sti intercooler.....Plus the RS looks a lot better than the 2.2:)

Originally posted by Liqid Oxygen
well, if you are going to turbo/intercool, and all that good stuff. i would get the 2.5rs, mostly because it has the hood scoop, and you can add a top mount intercooler. I heard that was supposed to be better than a regular one....maybe even get an Sti intercooler.....Plus the RS looks a lot better than the 2.2:)

There is no way a top-mount intercooler is better than a front mount. Front mounts suffer less than .2psi pressure drop accross the whole surface. However, if you ike the scoop for aesthetics, use it for general engine cooling, CAI, brake cooling etc.

Originally posted by ozriceboy
Please, don't show your ignorance. There are MANY more factors in engine design that determine power rather than just capacity. Did you consider bore VS stroke, compression ratios, camshaft profiles, number of cams per cylinder bank, injector rates, retarded ingition etc. The list goes on. And as for the Honda 1.6 litre engine being slow? Let's be a little more specific. If your talking about the ZC series engine, then I will agree. It's just anaverage 1.6. However, if you were referring to the B16A, fuck off. It had THE BEST power/litre ratio for 8 years!! And even then it was only overtaken by ANOTHER HONDA! So please, if you're going to spout 'knowledge' at least make sure you clearly earmark what is your opinion and what if fact. Peace. Oz.

Dude i really don't feel like getting into this right now or ever. Based on the hp ratings that the subaru 2.2 or 2.5 liter engines are going to be producing then yes the b16a is slow in comparison. Power/Liter terms then YES you have an awsome engine, but still slow in my terms. I was trying only to state the obvious, that the extra .3 liters will be gaining alot more power/pressure increase. That was all i was triing to get across!
Peace :monkeypis:dogpile:

Let's agree to disagree. I think Honda pack a heap of technology that kills Subaru in pure engine design. Alloy heads etc.

front mount intercooler less pressure drop true, but...

top mount=no obstructed radiator flow
top mount=no getting hit by rocks and other debris
top mount=less piping overall which means less lag

make mine a top mount!

and as for the engine size, all the higher hp imprezas use the 2.5, take the jun impreza for example, origionally a 2.0l wrx, swapped out in favor of the 2.5 i have a 2.5 myself and am very pleased with it, last night i beat a civic ex with nitrous and my car only has intake and exhaust.

I don't care about damage. If I did, I'd just put some bloddy strong mesh over it. Front wins. Well, actually, water cooled wins. So that settles it. :alien:

ok, get somethin straight everyone, the wrx IS NOT A 2.2 LITER ENGINE. its a 2.0 liter turbocharged and intercooled engine. and as for the 2.5....you might be waiting a damn long time before you can get a turbo or anything that would heavily increase HP. the market is focused on the WRX right now, and probably wont realize the 2.5 for a little bit. i would personally go with the 2.0 engine, its alot easier, and cheaper to get power out of that engine. and ozriceboy or whatever your name is, i've seen your posts around the website, and damn, you sure do have some kinda wild stick up your ass, your just bitter and rude to alot of people. your not the authority on cars, so calm down. but i digress....i would rather have the wrx and modify that. just my 2 cents though.

Originally posted by ImportNut1212
and as for the 2.5....you might be waiting a damn long time before you can get a turbo or anything that would heavily increase HP. the market is focused on the WRX right now, and probably wont realize the 2.5 for a little bit.

hey guy, the market has been making stuff for the 2.5 since the previous generation 2.5rs came out. there is prob MORE stuff on the american market for the 2.5 than the 2.0 i have some previous gen parts on my car myself. and they do make a 2.2 liter wrx, the 22b sti. theres is also a 2.2 liter non turbo impreza, which is what i believe was being referred to here.

Originally posted by ImportNut1212
ok, get somethin straight everyone, the wrx IS NOT A 2.2 LITER ENGINE. its a 2.0 liter turbocharged and intercooled engine. and as for the 2.5....you might be waiting a damn long time before you can get a turbo or anything that would heavily increase HP. the market is focused on the WRX right now, and probably wont realize the 2.5 for a little bit. i would personally go with the 2.0 engine, its alot easier, and cheaper to get power out of that engine. and ozriceboy or whatever your name is, i've seen your posts around the website, and damn, you sure do have some kinda wild stick up your ass, your just bitter and rude to alot of people. your not the authority on cars, so calm down. but i digress....i would rather have the wrx and modify that. just my 2 cents though.

That's funny...th eonly other place I post is another make and another part of the world whrre I've never seen you. I posted about 3 times in Street Racing before I realized they were all 13 year olds without cars or if they did have cars were all autos and raced about as much as they bathed. Now I'm finished ranting. I'm entitled to my opinions and will voice them as vocally as I like. Seriously, get a life. Bitter? Rude? I love the accusations without the quotes or evidence. I don't have a problem with anyone. So far. Oz.

Originally posted by ldelaysionl


hey guy, the market has been making stuff for the 2.5 since the previous generation 2.5rs came out. there is prob MORE stuff on the american market for the 2.5 than the 2.0 i have some previous gen parts on my car myself. and they do make a 2.2 liter wrx, the 22b sti. theres is also a 2.2 liter non turbo impreza, which is what i believe was being referred to here.

I second that and would like to open your eyes a bit. If you go to http://www.i-club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=50 you will find many references to turbo kits for the 2.5rs. The RS has been around for i think ten years now and started off as a 2.2L then it went to 2.5. You will be able to get a 2.5L engine to max hp easier than a 2.0 any day.

ok everyone, quit your bitchin already!! truthfully howmany of u guys even race for real, as in autocrossing and drag racing? i have a car for both events, i graduated from skip barber racing school, and have a racing licence in the NASA circuit! so stop your whining rookies!! also this is for the guys with 2.5RS scooby's there are turbos kits available @ www.forcedairtech.com with 3 different stages and a twin turbo 4th stage in the making!!! the first stage kit gets your scooby into the low 14's to the high 13's, and thats without an intercooler! and the the performance gets much, much better as u step up on the stages. i work at our local subaru dealership, and have seen several 2.5RS' from the customers come in with these kits in them, and i had the privilege to try them out after working on them, and they haul fuckin ass!!! forget your little ass honda, these scooby's can kick some serious ass! but i still know they wont beat my 96 Nissan's 240SX's ass, my 240SX eats Corvette ZO6's for breakfast and Porsche 911's for dinner, (ive already raced against these cars too many times and won). it doesnt matter all too much about displacement, u can easily make a WRX spank these turbo'd 2.5RS', what really counts is your experience in auto tuning and knowledge of top quality parts. :sun:

Originally posted by rezdog_420
ok everyone, quit your bitchin already!! truthfully howmany of u guys even race for real, as in autocrossing and drag racing?

umm i do. quite a lot actually. and those arent the only turbo kits for the 2.5, there are a LOT of different turbo and supercharger kts available to choose from, as well as many n/a parts. and obviously u DONT know much about auto tuning, cuz its pretty common knowledge that a larger displacement engine will have more power potential that a smaller displacement. the wrx 22b? it has a 2.2 liter cuz subaru knows that higher displacement will result in more power. if u followed subarus very closely u would know that almost all of the fastest subarus in the world use the 2.5 not the 2.0, i think youre bs'ing anyways, u dont seem to know very much even though u act like u do.

"96 Nissan's 240SX's ass, my 240SX eats Corvette ZO6's for breakfast and Porsche 911's for dinner"

what mods you got? post up some stuff i wanna read about your sx, coz im afraid i spot a bs flag raising over yonder.....so come on man, get some pics timeslips etc, coz as much as i love that car its gonna have to be modded like hell to beat either of those cars in autox or drag....

Quote:

"and obviously u DONT know much about auto tuning, cuz its pretty common knowledge that a larger displacement engine will have more power potential that a smaller displacement." idelaysionl-----


30 or 40 years ago, that may have been true, but nowadays, thats not so much true. you can get just as much power, if not more out of a 4 cylinder than you can an 8 cylinder. look at the front wheel drive drag cars, they get into the mid 8's with just as much ease as the 5.0's. so, to quote you, "obviously u DONT know much about auto tuning," no offense of course. just my opinion and yeah, rezdog, let us know what kind of mods you have on your 240 will ya?

yeah, but it is a lil easier to make a big barbaric 5.7l engine then it is to do all this hi-tech variable valve timing and other high tech gizmos. Its also a lot less complicated.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here. I respect any car on any level of tech as long as it has a dedicated tuner. Just tellin it like it is

Originally posted by ImportNut1212
30 or 40 years ago, that may have been true, but nowadays, thats not so much true. you can get just as much power, if not more out of a 4 cylinder than you can an 8 cylinder. look at the front wheel drive drag cars, they get into the mid 8's with just as much ease as the 5.0's. so, to quote you, "obviously u DONT know much about auto tuning," no offense of course. just my opinion and yeah, rezdog, let us know what kind of mods you have on your 240 will ya?

youre wrong. its just as true now as it ever has been, and will more than likely always be true, a higher displacement motor has more power producing potential than a lower displacement motor i didnt say anything about 4 cylinder vs v8, i said DISPLACEMENT. an engine with a higher displacement has the capability to burn larger quantities of air and fuel for each cycle, simply cuz it can hold more. now u say with all this new technology put into modern 4 cylinders they can make just as much power. wrong. put that same technology into a large displacement motor and it will make more power. put a 5.0 liter with variable valve timing, intercooled turbo, 5 valves per cylinder and all the other little things the modern import motors have and it will destroy a 2.0 liter with the same technology.

im not putting down imports here, i own 2 of em and i love having a small displacement motor. it gives better drivability, fuel economy, front/rear weight balance, and a pretty large amount of power can be made from them. but it doesnt take rocket science to realize a large displacement engine can make more raw hp then a small displacement.

All good points...I wonder why he hasn't posted the evidence yet, but I agree with all of his theories. The BS flag remains at half mast until further discussion on the issue.

if u can show me how to put pictures on the reply i would happily show u my timeslip and the info and pic of my car, but i dont know how to put pics on the replies. can u guys help me out on this one?:confused:

well...actually


the potential is there for a big motor to make big power, no doubt, but the little motors have the tech. it is realllllly easy to make big power w/ either setup...

and, as was stated, if you built a 5.0 w/ the twincam tech that is out, it would stomp a 2liter with the same tech. really? wow. that was a toughy...

there are more options with the 2.5 as is, but the 2.0 will come around, and it has a better starting point(turbo ready internals, a comp to match the turbo, etc), these are all things you have to modify... and if you keep up with scc's build up of their 2.5rs, it isnt always easy...


and on the mounting of intercoolers, if the top mount were so amazingly better, rally cars would run em. the sube rally car has a front mount too... hmm... there isnt that much more lag, and it cools alot more efficiently than a top mount, which soaks up enging heat... go front mount...

on top of that, most kits switch to a front mount on the 2.5rs or wrx, which means that is prolly better, if all the aftermarket and factory rally teams run fronts, its prolly better.... or go water/air intercooler, which runs great...

and for the 2.5rs, check out www.ludespeed.com, he has a turbo for it, and some upgrades...

yeah, im goin front mount on the intercooler most definately. buuuuuut i think im goin 2.5rs, coz it has a lil bit more displacement. I just wanna be able to spank stangs and give the occasional f-body a good run. As long as i can do that im more than happy

Originally posted by flylwsi
and on the mounting of intercoolers, if the top mount were so amazingly better, rally cars would run em. the sube rally car has a front mount too... hmm... there isnt that much more lag, and it cools alot more efficiently than a top mount, which soaks up enging heat... go front mount...

on top of that, most kits switch to a front mount on the 2.5rs or wrx, which means that is prolly better, if all the aftermarket and factory rally teams run fronts, its prolly better.... or go water/air intercooler, which runs great...

i didnt say the top mount was that much better performance and thats why i wanted it. my main reason was too keep crap from hitting it and messing it up. sure mesh will stop rocks, but have u ever seen a car with a bodykit hit an armadillo??? not a pretty sight, tore my friends front end completely off and sent fiberglass splinters everywhere, we had to put the bumper in the back seat just to go home. now imagine if an $800 intercooler had been back there :eek: ! see in arkansas we have to deal with hitting animals all the time. sometimes fairly large. in my old civic i literally ramped through the air and fishtailed down the road when i hit a dog the size of a small refridgerator!

in the rally races, theyre not really too worried about keeping their intercooler and other parts undamaged. subaru alone brings over 1,000 spare tires and i forget how many hundred spare shocks to each event. im sure theyve got 30 or 40 spare intercoolers in there somewhere too.

my only real note is in the engineering here. the smaller motors are designed with the turbo in mind. sure a bigger motor is going to get you more power, if you are running the same technology as the turbo motor (the pistons, crank, rods, the valves, all the little stuff that is uprated on a turbo motor). if you run big power, you end up fixing/building up all that stuff... and does it make more power than if you spent the money on a turbo'd car? what about the $ spent?
also, look at the probs that scc mag has had with their 2.5rs that is turboed. it does some quirky stuff, which they can/have gotten over, but its just the fact that it gets quirky. something designed to have a turbo, w/ the correct ecu, etc, wont get quirky w/o major huge mods. which means major power. but that happens with anything. i would rather start w/ a preturbo'd motor, unless i knew i was rebuilding the bigger n/a motor to take a turbo,and all that... if i was buying it to leave it alone, i'd get the wrx. but then again, it has a really nice susp too, not just a motor, it gets blurry...

Yeah, well i have all summer long to debate it. i cant wait to beat up this homo at my school who says his unmodded acura legend is, and i quote "one of the fastest cars at this school"......a school in the boonies thats littered with maros stangs and t/a's from all ages.......the bastard cant except he loses, he lost to a friends dakota sport because he was "changing cds" i hate him..........ok ill stop before this ends up in stress release.

back to the issue........i dunno which way to go, but i guess i should get the turbo'd car out of the box and upgrade all the intercooler, turbo parts, and just be awesome

Originally posted by NismoDrifts
i cant wait to beat up this homo at my school who says his unmodded acura legend is, and i quote "one of the fastest cars at this school

haha! theres a guy here with intake and exhaust on his accord and he says he has "the fastest car in town"

scc's turbo rs had so many problems cuz it was the 1st turbo rs in the country and everything on it was a custom made one off. now that the research and development has been done there will bo no problems like that when turboing a 2.5 if u dont believe me check out www.i-club.com go to the forums then the aftermarket forced induction forum, there must be over 100 turboed and sc'd 2.5s there, and theyre all very happy with their abilities to spank wrxs while spending less overall as the wrx cost. the 2.5 is a very turbo friendly motor but one exeption, the pistons. with only a set of lower compression pistons u can put wrx's to shame with your boost levels. i think u should visit that forum if youre trying to decide between wrx and 2.5, there is more information there than i or anyone else could ever hope to tell u.

another factor, wrx=$450 a month+$300 a month insurance (for me anyway) rs=$300 a month+$200 a month insurance. if i was paying $750 a month on just payments and insurance, id never have enough left over to modify with, but $500 a month i can still swing a mod or two every now and then.

bottom line, visit www.i-club.com before u decide wrx or 2.5, theres a wealth of infomation on modifying wrx's and 2.5s there, enough to give u a good idea which one will suit your purposes.

Hey people! i asked u guys a question earlier, how in the hell do u put pictures on your replie!?!?! afraid to be proven wrong about a 240SX whoopin ZO6's ass' or what! all im asking is for someone to tell me how to put pics on these replies so i can prove to what my car is capable of. i have my timeslip pic and a pic of my car, all i need now is to know how to put them on here. you guys will shit your pants when u see my timeslip!:D :finger4:

well since the little "attach file" thingy says .txt are the only valid file extensions, i guess youll have to post your pics on another website then lput a link to them on here. go somewhere like speedoptions.com where they let u upload pics when u register, then link to the page it puts them on.

well im wondering how ozrice gets his pics on almost every reply he puts down, is it the same way u explained or what?

u talking bout the pics in his sig? cuz thats different u can put pics there. if u wanna email your car and timeslip pic ill upload them to the website i keep just for linking to pics, then ill put up the links for u, it doesnt get any easier than that! jason@t-mail.com if u want me to do that.

sweet dude, thanks for the help, ill be emailing u the pics as soon as im done writing this reply. thanks to u again!

well i retract anything i said about bs, here is his car
http://hapemask.20megsfree.com/images/240sx.jpg
and here is his timeslip
http://hapemask.20megsfree.com/images/240sxslip.jpg
although he didnt tell me if he was in the left or right lane, either way good time! thats a nice car u got there, any more info on it?

it wont show up, i wanna see this beast

my car was the one in the right lane, car #5042. none of the pics showed up though! thats a bummer!! since i didnt give u any info on it when i emailed it to u, i think ill just post it here for everyone to read. my car is a 96 Nissan 240SX, with a Nsport stage 3 turbo kit, 75 hp shot kit from NOS, 550cc injectors from JWT, ECU from and tuned by JWT, Nology Hotwire spark plug wires, NGK plugs, heads and valves ported and smoothed by my dad, A'pexi N1 endurance exhaust system, HKS Super Mega Flow air intake system, HKS turbo timer and EVCIV, HKS hyper coil-over suspension, 18" Volk Racing wheels, 275/45 18" BFGoodrich G-Force T/A's, JDM Nismo Silvia S-14 front end, 13" Brembo brakes, all in a package that runs 11.072 sec. @126.65 MPH in the 1/4 mile. this is also my daily driver car that still gets barely over 20 miles to the gallon in the city! so yes, this is a ZO6 stompin Nissan!

dammit my bad! just go to
http://www.hapemask.20megsfree.com/photo.html
his car is the last 2 pics, the rest are my honda.

well boys, hes got my pics posted up, now its time for u to check it out and see what i roll!! about your guys' talk about the intercooler, id definaiely would go front mount, both my 240sx and my drag mustang have it done that way and it works like a charm! if u think about it, the air gets to it best from the front and not the top, even it u have a big ass scoop on your hood. but oh well, everything in the automotive industry is based on personal preference, and everyone is entitled to their opinions! but anyway, check out the photos of my timeslip and my car, guarenteed to put a grin on your face:sun:

welllllllll before i go off saying a thousand things about that car, due to my love for SX's, ill try to restrain myself and keep it short. Actually, ill just say one word.................WHOA

WHy not get the turbo 2.0 and get a stroker crank to like 2.4. 100cc won't make f all difference.

Oh, and the bS flag is officially lowered. Apologies. You can imagine what it sounde like ont hese forums when you hear claims like that all the time, then never hear from them again.

your statement about me putting in a 2.0l, as in the SR20DET, i have one in my truck but dont have anything modded on it so i can keep it street legal for emissions and California Smog. i thought heavily on putting one in my 240SX, but i also wanted to drive it everyday too, and knew it would be impossible to keep it street legal with the mods i had planned on putting in it, u look at my car and timeslip now, and anymore tuning or anythingelse would get me screwed by the police. the cops here are very strick on heavily modded cars on the street! i got a ticket for my mustang once when i was driving around the block to run some gas through it! and wouldnt blame the cops for doing so, they thing is one loud ass son of a bitch! u literally set off alarms by driven by, and make deaf people hear again when i stand on it, so i can only trailer it to the track. i definately in thought though about putting a S-15 Silvia SR20DET in it with the 6 speed manual, but wanted to drive it on a daily basis, so i thought against it and started building up my KA24DE instead. but it was worth it 110%

i have finally decided. i am getting a 2.2 liter legacy L wagon, port/polish/good stuff to heads, pistons, con rods, clips for the piston, and a turbo kit that has new injectors, ecu, turbo, BOV, etc. I will be moving a front mount intercooler because i want to get as much out of this as i can.

The 2.2L will run more boost because the 2.2 has a closed deck, and the 2.5 is an open deck design.