We're all Americans here huh?

We really don't need to prove that American muscle cars are better, there are no such things as Japanese muscle cars, and who's been building cars longer. We are the best period.

We really don't need to prove that American muscle cars are better, there are no such things as Japanese muscle cars, and who's been building cars longer. We are the best period.
Im afraid we ARENT the best period. Id buy a Nissan over a chevy or ford car any day; they are good quality and have good power. This whole "American cars are the best period" BS is so stupid; open your eyes and see that there are better cars than just the ones made in the United States.

We really don't need to prove that American muscle cars are better, there are no such things as Japanese muscle cars, and who's been building cars longer. We are the best period.


if we are better simple because we have been building cars longer then how come the most sold car in the world is a japanese car. and the 3 cars in the world with the most miles on paper are an accord and a 1970 something volvo?

Im afraid we ARENT the best period. Id buy a Nissan over a chevy or ford car any day; they are good quality and have good power. This whole "American cars are the best period" BS is so stupid; open your eyes and see that there are better cars than just the ones made in the United States.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink.

I'm not going to argue the Jap vs American thing here anymore, but what I will say is this. I have oned both kinds of cars, and I don't care what JDPowers or anybody else says, my GMC truck lasted every bit as long as my Toyota, and longer then MY VW. I can say the same thing for my 1969 Z/28, prove me wrong using anything you wish to use.

if we are better simple because we have been building cars longer then how come the most sold car in the world is a japanese car. and the 3 cars in the world with the most miles on paper are an accord and a 1970 something volvo?

Doesn't mean it's better

The most sold cars are Japanese cars a lot due to the fact that they cost less, and yes they are very dependable. But not more dependable then an American car, any car that you maintain correctly will be dependable and last for a long time, and every car company be it Japanese or American has had recalls IE made an error along the building process somewhere. All I ask on the milage thing is a little proof, I do think that JDPowers and some of the mags that study these things are just a bit biased, but so am I big deal huh.

Although I have never owned a foreign car, I would definitely consider buying a foreign car for the gas mileage. As far as overall quality, I believe you will find a lemon among all makes and models. You hear about them more than you do about vehicles with no problems.

American all the way. :devil:

The most sold cars are Japanese cars a lot due to the fact that they cost less, and yes they are very dependable. But not more dependable then an American car, any car that you maintain correctly will be dependable and last for a long time, and every car company be it Japanese or American has had recalls IE made an error along the building process somewhere. All I ask on the milage thing is a little proof, I do think that JDPowers and some of the mags that study these things are just a bit biased, but so am I big deal huh.


true..... (to each his own) i would rather buy a toyota corrolla over lets just say a pontiac grand prix gt. better gas milage, more reliable and a much cheaper car.

true..... (to each his own) i would rather buy a toyota corrolla over lets just say a pontiac grand prix gt. better gas milage, more reliable and a much cheaper car.

Cheaper yes.

Well your right, it does get better gas milage, and it is cheaper to buy.
It is not more dependable, proof is all I ask.

you can fool some of the people some of the time, but can you fool all of the people all of the time.

1) let me ask, is cheaper always better.
2) would you rather see your mom driving a little beer can, or a car like a Cadillac with a little substance. Does it make you feel better to know the mom has a sixteenth of sheet metal between her and the road, or a big frame and a lot more metal.
3) Is cheaper really better.
4)I'll give you the gas milage.
5)The Grand Prix will out last you Toyota.
6) I have owned a Toyota.
7)If cheaper is always better, sould they always use the cheapest parts possible to build their cars.
8) Other then manufacturing cost being cheaper in Japan, how do you think they get these thing built for so much less.
9) After being in the body shop business I do know this, the japanese use sub standard metal in comparisan to us.
10) It just makes good sence to keep the money in our country.

Well your right, it does get better gas milage, and it is cheaper to buy.
It is not more dependable, proof is all I ask.

you can fool some of the people some of the time, but can you fool all of the people all of the time.

1) let me ask, is cheaper always better.
2) would you rather see your mom driving a little beer can, or a <A TITLE="Click for more information about car" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw">car</A>; like a Cadillac with a little substance. Does it make you feel better to know the mom has a sixteenth of sheet metal between her and the road, or a big frame and a lot more metal.
3) Is cheaper really better.
4)I'll give you the gas milage.
5)The Grand Prix will out last you Toyota.
6) I have owned a Toyota.
7)If cheaper is always better, sould they always use the cheapest parts possible to build their cars.
8) Other then manufacturing cost being cheaper in Japan, how do you think they get these thing built for so much less.
9) After being in the body shop business I do know this, the japanese use sub standard metal in comparisan to us.
10) It just makes good sence to keep the money in our country.


1. sheetmetal is never what it is protecting you. even in the older days when steel is what the body was that was completely smash in an accident over 40. a 1/16 of an inch sheet metal why not when there is a steel beam running through the door. (not refering to a corolla refering to my grad am.) i've also been around toyotas and they have lasted til round 180,000 miles and the let go was not cost of repair. just wanted a newer car.
2. they are using the cheaper parts possible to build a car. have you seen the inter. of a 2002 sunfire.
3. keep the money in our country, im not exactly sure who builds the grand prix but my grand am is build in mexico!!

Well your right, it does get better gas milage, and it is cheaper to buy.
It is not more dependable, proof is all I ask.

you can fool some of the people some of the time, but can you fool all of the people all of the time.

1) let me ask, is cheaper always better.
2) would you rather see your mom driving a little beer can, or a <A TITLE="Click for more information about car" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||cars|AA1VDw">car</A>; like a Cadillac with a little substance. Does it make you feel better to know the mom has a sixteenth of sheet metal between her and the road, or a big frame and a lot more metal.
3) Is cheaper really better.
4)I'll give you the gas milage.
5)The Grand Prix will out last you Toyota.
6) I have owned a Toyota.
7)If cheaper is always better, sould they always use the cheapest parts possible to build their cars.
8) Other then manufacturing cost being cheaper in Japan, how do you think they get these thing built for so much less.
9) After being in the body shop business I do know this, the japanese use sub standard metal in comparisan to us.
10) It just makes good sence to keep the money in our country.


im not in a postion to afford a grand prix let alone a cadillac. i barely afford to keep my grand am which cost more then a corolla. my biggest point is i like the idea of a car like corolla and sentra that can be had for less then $16,000 and can still last upwards of 150,000 miles.

if we are better simple because we have been building cars longer then how come the most sold car in the world is a japanese car. and the 3 cars in the world with the most miles on paper are an accord and a 1970 something volvo?


The most sold car in the world is the venerable VW bug. They stopped production on them in 2002, after producing more than 50,000,000. What is the mileage on this accord, and why do you say 3 cars but only name 2?

I guess I would drive a jap car someday, but it'd be a 240Z with a 383 stroker.

First, I'd like to bring to everyone's attention the simple fact that the first automobile was Karl Benz's tri-cart built in 1886. Also mentionable as pre-dating the American auto industry are Renault, De Dion Bouton, and Austro-Daimler. The claim that Americans have been building cars "the longest" is bunk.

Second, the most dangerous cars in an accident ARE stiffly built full frame automobiles such as the aforementioned Cadillac. These cars don't crumple in an incident, and thus dissipate the forward energy of an incident. Deformable structure, as pioneered by Mercedes-Benz, is the safest method of construction. It's only prehistoric idiosyncracies like the Chevrolet Avalanche that provide the danger to "small cars". Thanks to the EPA loopholes, these monstrosities are allowed to be built into rolling hazards for anyone who buys a sensible car (domestic or import).

I have learned through a great deal of research, apparently much more than you, that nationality has absolutely nothing with the quality of an automobile.

As I've discovered, a car can only be truly judged on its own. Toyota can build a rattletrap (Echo) and Chevrolet can build a solid family car (Malibu). And vice versa (Camry & Vega).

First, I'd like to bring to everyone's attention the simple fact that the first automobile was Karl Benz's tri-cart built in 1886. Also mentionable as pre-dating the American auto industry are Renault, De Dion Bouton, and Austro-Daimler. The claim that Americans have been building cars "the longest" is bunk.

Second, the most dangerous cars in an accident ARE stiffly built full frame automobiles such as the aforementioned Cadillac. These cars don't crumple in an incident, and thus dissipate the forward energy of an incident. Deformable structure, as pioneered by Mercedes-Benz, is the safest method of construction. It's only prehistoric idiosyncracies like the Chevrolet Avalanche that provide the danger to "small cars". Thanks to the EPA loopholes, these monstrosities are allowed to be built into rolling hazards for anyone who buys a sensible car (domestic or import).

I have learned through a great deal of research, apparently much more than you, that nationality has absolutely nothing with the quality of an automobile.

As I've discovered, a car can only be truly judged on its own. Toyota can build a rattletrap (Echo) and Chevrolet can build a solid family car (Malibu). And vice versa (Camry & Vega).

Well put.
There is not best or better, just different, the diversity of car makes, models, styles, options, and prices is what truly makes the automotive world great. We don't have to be a bunch of clones, everyone can be an individual, drive what he/she likes and be proud of it. Would it not be boring to have to conform and have no choice or preference.

Respect the automobile for what it is, an individual expression. You don't have to agree with someone else's preference, but do respect their individuality.

I, for one, am thankful that we all have so many choices. What fun would it be if one brand was the best in every aspect?

I have a few comments about this whole american vs. jap thing. Look at what you are bickering about? Most ford powerplants are made by mazda anymore.. Dodge/Chrysler is all Mitsibitchy.. GM owns GEO and uses Toyota transmissions.. it's all junk. (yes, i'm a mechanic) Don't believe me, go look at some parts cross-refrence books. It's pathetic. My "american car" is my 1970 Couger XR7 which is still running, still looks good, and will still blow the (*$&@ doors off any rice burning tweaked out tin can of a modern car you want to throw at it. The ONLY car to give me a run for my money that has come out in the last few years is the 2002 Ram Air Trans-Am. Period.

American Cars *the real ones* are and will be the best.. as long as people realize you have to MAINTAIN them.. just like any car.. not fix them when they break. Idiots.

-DrivECRasH

I have a few comments about this whole american vs. jap thing. Look at what you are bickering about? Most ford powerplants are made by mazda anymore.. Dodge/Chrysler is all Mitsibitchy.. GM owns GEO and uses Toyota transmissions.. it's all junk. (yes, i'm a mechanic) Don't believe me, go look at some parts cross-refrence books. It's pathetic. My "american car" is my 1970 Couger XR7 which is still running, still looks good, and will still blow the (*$&@ doors off any rice burning tweaked out tin can of a modern car you want to throw at it. The ONLY car to give me a run for my money that has come out in the last few years is the 2002 Ram Air Trans-Am. Period.

American Cars *the real ones* are and will be the best.. as long as people realize you have to MAINTAIN them.. just like any car.. not fix them when they break. Idiots.

-DrivECRasH

ok so you've never raced a serious "rice burning tweaked out tin can of a modern car " but what's the point muscle heads are the most hard headed bunch out there. and you are a muscle head. time and time again has it been proven that a stock import depending on which one can and will oout run your muscle car. what more has to be done. a 270 hp 2.0 liters can out run a V8 5.4 liter claiming 390hp. it said how older people always saying "young people dont listen, they are hard headed" and i want you to listen to me there is plenty of replacements for displacements. a lower powered jap car and kill a lot of V8s with more power and costing more money.

Just because the car is cheaper and gets better gas mileage doesn't mean it's better. You forgot about the thing that most people who peruse these forums care most about....performance and looks. I would rather have a 350 hp gas hog than some 60mpg cheapo hybrid plastic piece of shit, but that's just the redneck inside of me coming out. I want a car that's fast and reliable *cough*muscle car*cough* not a slow economy car...my opinion. Although...my dad was telling me not to long ago, that everyone back in the day had a hot rod, and if you didn't you still drove your car like it was one...so i guess not much has changed except now import enthusiasts say their cars are better because they have more technology, which in my opinion means that their's just more stuff to fix when it brakes.


bah, there i go rambling on again about nothing :banghead:

ok so you've never raced a serious "rice burning tweaked out tin can of a modern car " but what's the point muscle heads are the most hard headed bunch out there. and you are a muscle head. time and time again has it been proven that a stock import depending on which one can and will oout run your muscle car. what more has to be done. a 270 hp 2.0 liters can out run a V8 5.4 liter claiming 390hp. it said how older people always saying "young people dont listen, they are hard headed" and i want you to listen to me there is plenty of replacements for displacements. a lower powered jap car and kill a lot of V8s with more power and costing more money.

I've never seen this.. :screwy: And believe me i'm around a lot of racing. At the local track import racers usually get laughed at. And then to add insult to injury, when they race one of the "V8's", they get their butts handed to them...Not all V8's depend on the "390 HP", more or less the torque they are putting out. Ever see a 4 Cylinder run 7.33 in the 1/8mile, neither have i. But the car i work on in my automotive classes at college can. 1980 Chevy Malibu, 356 C.I.D 500+ HP, and on a limited budget that we have to raise ourselves.

I've never seen this.. :screwy: And believe me i'm around a lot of racing. At the local track import racers usually get laughed at. And then to add insult to injury, when they race one of the "V8's", they get their butts handed to them...Not all V8's depend on the "390 HP", more or less the torque they are putting out. Ever see a 4 Cylinder run 7.33 in the 1/8mile, neither have i. But the car i work on in my automotive classes at college can. 1980 Chevy Malibu, 356 C.I.D 500+ HP, and on a limited budget that we have to raise ourselves.


number one- i was talking about two stock cars
number two- example a 2003 mitsubishi evo vs. a 2003 svt cobra
number three- there is a 4 cylinder caviler with a 2.2 Liter ecotec running in the low 7's oh i was talking about 1/4 not 1/8 mile.

I've never seen this.. :screwy: And believe me i'm around a lot of racing. At the local track import racers usually get laughed at. And then to add insult to injury, when they race one of the "V8's", they get their butts handed to them...Not all V8's depend on the "390 HP", more or less the torque they are putting out. Ever see a 4 Cylinder run 7.33 in the 1/8mile, neither have i. But the car i work on in my automotive classes at college can. 1980 Chevy Malibu, 356 C.I.D 500+ HP, and on a limited budget that we have to raise ourselves.


just because you dont see does not mean it dont happen, the race track near me (capital raceway, md) imports are holding there own. and rememeber this import tuners are younger people unable to spend as much money. trust me import tuners are coming.

I am young(i'm 18), and believe me there is plenty of contingent of V8 racers still out there who are holding their own, continuing to prove that "there is no replacement for displacement." Not ALL young people are into this import craze that seems to plague the streets. I'm sorry if it's a little hard for me to believe, but i've heard so many BS stories from a friend of mine saying his friends stock RSX TypeS beat a Grand Prix GTP with a smaller pulley, it gets hard to believe anyone anymore :rolleyes: . I just get sick of hearing that imports are soooo much better than american cars it makes me want to puke.

And the Evo's tranny will break after the third pass at the strip anyway so it doesn't matter.

7.33 in the 1/8 and 11.73 in the 1/4, and we have only put 5000$ into the car; that's including chassis, body, and engine(the carclub was started up in 1999). :thefinger

I am young(i'm 18), and believe me there is plenty of contingent of V8 racers still out there who are holding their own, continuing to prove that "there is no replacement for displacement." Not ALL young people are into this import craze that seems to plague the streets. I'm sorry if it's a little hard for me to believe, but i've heard so many BS stories from a friend of mine saying his friends stock RSX TypeS beat a Grand Prix GTP with a smaller pulley, it gets hard to believe anyone anymore :rolleyes: . I just get sick of hearing that imports are soooo much better than american cars it makes me want to puke.

And the Evo's tranny will break after the third pass at the strip anyway so it doesn't matter.

7.33 in the 1/8 and 11.73 in the 1/4, and we have only put 5000$ into the car; that's including chassis, body, and engine(the carclub was started up in 1999). :thefinger



lol i can see a rsx beating a gtp, the tranny on the evo can handle upwards of 400 hp everyday left stock itll drag all day long no troubles, and add $5000 and i know itll be into the 10s. and i will not say that imports are sooo much better but i will say there are making the same amount of power with smaller engines. like the like line with a 2.5 Liter inline six having stock 350 wheel horse power. and i can respect 11.7s in the 1/4 with $5000 worth of work.

Are you refering to the Nissan 2.5 ltre in the Maximas, cause i'm pretty sure that only has 250. And the car wasn't stock, we had to build it from the ground up, we even had to makeshift most of the parts we couldn't afford to buy...but by god it runs like a striped assed ape.

I here so many people on the forums and on the streets talk about how much better imports are....Most of them have only 2 reasons, technology and turbos.

It was a good argument but i think i'm gonna move on to a new one. You've proved your point, and i've proved mine.

Are you refering to the Nissan 2.5 ltre in the Maximas, cause i'm pretty sure that only has 250. And the car wasn't stock, we had to build it from the ground up, we even had to makeshift most of the parts we couldn't afford to buy...but by god it runs like a striped assed ape.

I here so many people on the forums and on the streets talk about how much better imports are....Most of them have only 2 reasons, technology and turbos.

It was a good argument but i think i'm gonna move on to a new one. You've proved your point, and i've proved mine.


nope that is not what i was talking bout i was talking bout the rb26det found in the skyline.

a 270 hp 2.0 liters can out run a V8 5.4 liter claiming 390hp.

Well it's only 4.6L but OK. It cannot outrun the cobra either by any stretch.
The EVO is boosting what 17 PSI intercooled turbo, and the SVT 8 PSI roots non-intercooled. Roots are also very inefficient.
Plus the AWD of the EVO is what makes it so fast in the 1/4. I would put money on the EVO's 60 ft times being atleast a full second better than the cobra, which equals atleast 2 seconds in the whole 1/4 mile. From a roll, the Cobra would smoke an EVO no problem.

Well it's only 4.6L but OK. It cannot outrun the cobra either by any stretch.
The EVO is boosting what 17 PSI intercooled turbo, and the SVT 8 PSI roots non-intercooled. Roots are also very inefficient.
Plus the AWD of the EVO is what makes it so fast in the 1/4. I would put money on the EVO's 60 ft times being atleast a full second better than the cobra, which equals atleast 2 seconds in the whole 1/4 mile. From a roll, the Cobra would smoke an EVO no problem.


ok since ya wanna compare from a roll. i can respect that. win yes, i can see that but not smoking,lets put them on a complicated road course like leguna seca?

Well it's only 4.6L but OK. It cannot outrun the cobra either by any stretch.
The EVO is boosting what 17 PSI intercooled turbo, and the SVT 8 PSI roots non-intercooled. Roots are also very inefficient.
Plus the AWD of the EVO is what makes it so fast in the 1/4. I would put money on the EVO's 60 ft times being atleast a full second better than the cobra, which equals atleast 2 seconds in the whole 1/4 mile. From a roll, the Cobra would smoke an EVO no problem.



only 4.6 thats still a lot of liters. the difference between liters of these 2 cars are more liters then in my car.

and you bring the point up about boost the number of boost. so whats ya point?

ok since ya wanna compare from a roll. i can respect that. win yes, i can see that but not smoking,lets put them on a complicated road course like leguna seca?

The whole reason the EVO was built was to be a rally car :screwy:

only 4.6 thats still a lot of liters. the difference between liters of these 2 cars are more liters then in my car.

and you bring the point up about boost the number of boost. so whats ya point?

Whats my point? OK boost the cobra 17 PSI and I think you will get my point.

The whole reason the EVO was built was to be a rally car :screwy:



now tell me ya point.

Whats my point? OK boost the cobra 17 PSI and I think you will get my point.


why boost it further?, we are comparing showroom to showroom.

The whole reason the EVO was built was to be a rally car :screwy:


and the evo we are talking about is a street car.

and the evo we are talking about is a street car.

The WRX is a rally car, the EVO was made to combat it. The EVO is a rally car.
Strait line performance is what muscle cars are all about. Torque rules on the street.

Ford was dumb by putting a roots blower on the cobra. Just for the sake of argument, just boost the Cobra with 8 PSI of intercooled turbo and it would make twice the HP that roots will.
If I ever by a Mustang, it sure won't be a cobra. It will be a GT, and the I'll put a intercooled centrifical SC on it and make 500 HP easy.

why boost it further?, we are comparing showroom to showroom.

Yup showroom to showroom the cobra will SMOKE the EVO on the Highway. If the Cobra could get traction, it would be atleast a second faster in the 1/4-because it really makes 450 HP in real life. Dyno's prove that it gets more than it's factory rating (390) to the wheels.

i love american cars yes im plannin on gettin a 70 cuda but hell look in any carsales magazine i dont see many jap cars...they are better then american cars off the bat and are the easiest for kids to buy and maintain...... and considering over 3/4 te driving population is between 16-27 hell thats alot of car that are more then likely jap....so yea.. its stupid to think that american is better just because...fuck looks? i go for a muscle all the way but for cheap easy reliable car i go jap no matter what thats how it is..sry

ok realy now a 99skyline vs any american car stock car..its lighter ..gots a a 280-350hp stock engine(Rumourd) adn hell its got a fan or something to hold it closer to the ground to increase aerodynamics.......i dont think many stock cars can beat that and yea it dont follow cheaper is betterskylines are like 90k

ok realy now a 99skyline vs any american car stock car..its lighter ..gots a a 280-350hp stock engine(Rumourd) adn hell its got a fan or something to hold it closer to the ground to increase aerodynamics.......i dont think many stock cars can beat that and yea it dont follow cheaper is betterskylines are like 90k



90k no if you were to buy a 99 skyline in 1999 it would cost roughly $33,000 us $ but to ship it here yea it would jump that high, due to american regs and rules for shipping such a car here it would jump to about $85,000

Yup showroom to showroom the cobra will SMOKE the EVO on the Highway. If the Cobra could get traction, it would be atleast a second faster in the 1/4-because it really makes 450 HP in real life. Dyno's prove that it gets more than it's factory rating (390) to the wheels.


if it has that much power why does it run 0-60 in 4.82 sec slower then the evo at 4.59. the svt having "450hp" and only does the 1/4 in .07 fast then the evo. my thats slow in comparison the evo has only 271. my point was never that the evo is faster or jap cars are better my point is, why are japanese cars close, equal to, or sometimes faster then american muscle. and also why so much power in american muscle but so slow? i hear reason of weight and traction. how is that a good reason? i mean people brag of how american muscle cars are made for strait line but yet they dont go anywhere

Power distribution. Those older muscle cars didn't have some of the chassis that newer cars do, subframes and whatnot. They put so much power to the wheels, getting traction is a skill few can master. To say a muscle car doesn't go anywhere though is to say that a Japanese car gets shitty gas mileage. As for newer muscle cars....Let me put it this way, lets say that American cars specialized in 4 bangers, and Imports specialized in OHV V8's. It would be a reverse scenario, they can compete because they've had years and years to come up with the technology that they have, the same for american V8's. All it is, Japanese engineers know how to make a powerful 4 Cylinder, American engineers know how to make a powerful V8. Because it's what they've worked with and what they know how to do.

Power distribution. Those older muscle cars didn't have some of the chassis that newer cars do, subframes and whatnot. They put so much power to the wheels, getting traction is a skill few can master. To say a muscle car doesn't go anywhere though is to say that a Japanese car gets shitty gas mileage. As for newer muscle cars....Let me put it this way, lets say that American cars specialized in 4 bangers, and Imports specialized in OHV V8's. It would be a reverse scenario, they can compete because they've had years and years to come up with the technology that they have, the same for american V8's. All it is, Japanese engineers know how to make a powerful 4 Cylinder, American engineers know how to make a powerful V8. Because it's what they've worked with and what they know how to do.


good point, but still how is that a good excuss, its a fact that 4 bangers are outrunning v8, and the only v8s that are faster are the ones found in cars costing more then $40 grand, or after market.

ok realy now a 99skyline vs any american car stock car..its lighter ..gots a a 280-350hp stock engine(Rumourd) adn hell its got a fan or something to hold it closer to the ground to increase aerodynamics.......i dont think many stock cars can beat that and yea it dont follow cheaper is betterskylines are like 90k


Please..Dont talk..at least not about cars

1st- You can't type and it's annoying to read
2nd- When did anyone in here start talking about Skylines
3rd- 90K for an import when you can get an equally good 2002 T/A WS6 for 32K.
4th- A fan? Do you have any idea what your talking about, a fan will not lower your car, it will cool the engine.
5th- Any American car? 1966 Cobra 427? 1966 Corvette 427? Any of the fastest american cars? 1987 Buick GN GNX?

How long were the gears in your head churning to come up with these thoughts?

good point, but still how is that a good excuss, its a fact that 4 bangers are outrunning v8, and the only v8s that are faster are the ones found in cars costing more then $40 grand, or after market.

I dont see to much of this? At least not where i'm from...They can't even beat most of the V6's. I'm driving my grandpas 94' Accord V-Tec, when i raced my cousin in his 3.0 LeBaron, he kicked my ass. I'm not impressed at all with the V-Tec..It's a cool concept, but not for performance.

I dont see to much of this? At least not where i'm from...They can't even beat most of the V6's. I'm driving my grandpas 94' Accord V-Tec, when i raced my cousin in his 3.0 LeBaron, he kicked my ass. I'm not impressed at all with the V-Tec..It's a cool concept, but not for performance.

LOL, the 3.0L sucks too. Try one of the turbo cars, like a GTC lebaron.
The thing with imports is NO torque, you can talk HP until you are blue in the face, just give me the torque output of the engine and I'll humiliate you. Like my daytona, rated at 146 HP, but 168 ft/lbs stock. Integra LS? yeah 142 HP, but a measly 130 ft/lbs. Plus that was with the ECU controlling boost, now that I have a MBC, I probably have 225 ft/lbs and about 190 HP. I could smoke an LS with bolt ons no problem when I was stock. But now, with less than $500 in mods, I'm taking on GSX's and I laugh at all the Honduhs. And I don't have a car payment, or high insurance. After I intercool it will be a lot faster because the potential is greater. Turbos are cool, but I'd rather go with good old american V8 torque(and sound).

LOL, the 3.0L sucks too. Try one of the turbo cars, like a GTC lebaron.
The thing with imports is NO torque, you can talk HP until you are blue in the face, just give me the torque output of the engine and I'll humiliate you. Like my daytona, rated at 146 HP, but 168 ft/lbs stock. Integra LS? yeah 142 HP, but a measly 130 ft/lbs. Plus that was with the ECU controlling boost, now that I have a MBC, I probably have 225 ft/lbs and about 190 HP. I could smoke an LS with bolt ons no problem when I was stock. But now, with less than $500 in mods, I'm taking on GSX's and I laugh at all the Honduhs. And I don't have a car payment, or high insurance. After I intercool it will be a lot faster because the potential is greater. Turbos are cool, but I'd rather go with good old american V8 torque(and sound).

Definately, that's why i can't wait until summer to drive my old mans 79' Z28.. 350 4 bolt main, 3.73 12 bolt posi ; with engine and chassis mods out the ass. 17K worth.

I dont see to much of this? At least not where i'm from...They can't even beat most of the V6's. I'm driving my grandpas 94' Accord V-Tec, when i raced my cousin in his 3.0 LeBaron, he kicked my ass. I'm not impressed at all with the V-Tec..It's a cool concept, but not for performance.


i was in the car when a 5speed 91 accord with vtec, when it outran a 5.0 mustang also 5 speed and the driver of that car was older so he should im not saying he is but should have been a better shirter.

i was in the car when a 5speed 91 accord with vtec, when it outran a 5.0 mustang also 5 speed and the driver of that car was older so he should im not saying he is but should have been a better shirter.

OK a 140 HP accord outran a 225 HP mustang. He wasn't trying.

OK a 140 HP accord outran a 225 HP mustang. He wasn't trying.


power to weight ratio and tratio my friend

OK a 140 HP accord outran a 225 HP mustang. He wasn't trying.


i mean traction

LOL, the 3.0L sucks too. Try one of the turbo cars, like a GTC lebaron.
The thing with imports is NO torque, you can talk HP until you are blue in the face, just give me the torque output of the engine and I'll humiliate you. Like my daytona, rated at 146 HP, but 168 ft/lbs stock. Integra LS? yeah 142 HP, but a measly 130 ft/lbs. Plus that was with the ECU controlling boost, now that I have a MBC, I probably have 225 ft/lbs and about 190 HP. I could smoke an LS with bolt ons no problem when I was stock. But now, with less than $500 in mods, I'm taking on GSX's and I laugh at all the Honduhs. And I don't have a car payment, or high insurance. After I intercool it will be a lot faster because the potential is greater. Turbos are cool, but I'd rather go with good old american V8 torque(and sound).


torque is worth less if you are unable to get it to the ground and thats the problem with american muscle.

OK a 140 HP accord outran a 225 HP mustang. He wasn't trying.


hold up a 5.0 with 225 hp lol :rofl:

The weight difference between the 5.0 and the accord wouldn't off set the major power advantage a 5.0 holds over the accord. The guy in the stang either couldn't drive his car, or wasn't even paying attention to you.

LOL, the 3.0L sucks too. Try one of the turbo cars, like a GTC lebaron.
The thing with imports is NO torque, you can talk HP until you are blue in the face, just give me the torque output of the engine and I'll humiliate you. Like my daytona, rated at 146 HP, but 168 ft/lbs stock. Integra LS? yeah 142 HP, but a measly 130 ft/lbs. Plus that was with the ECU controlling boost, now that I have a MBC, I probably have 225 ft/lbs and about 190 HP. I could smoke an LS with bolt ons no problem when I was stock. But now, with less than $500 in mods, I'm taking on GSX's and I laugh at all the Honduhs. And I don't have a car payment, or high insurance. After I intercool it will be a lot faster because the potential is greater. Turbos are cool, but I'd rather go with good old american V8 torque(and sound).


as for sound i love the scream and whirl of a turbo and of course the "guss" of a blow off valve is just music to my ears.

The weight difference between the 5.0 and the accord wouldn't off set the major power advantage a 5.0 holds over the accord. The guy in the stang either couldn't drive his car, or wasn't even paying attention to you.


the finger at the end proves he was paying attention. again this proves the point i have made before any car can beat any other car at any given point.

power to weight ratio and tratio my friend


Specs from autotrader.com:
91 accord:
Wheelbase 107.1

Overall Length 184.8

Vehicle Height 52.8

Vehicle Width 67.9

Front Headroom N/R

Front Legroom N/R

Curb Weight 3,122

Gross Vehicle Weight N/R


92 mustang:
Manufacturer Code No Data

Wheelbase 100.5

Overall Length 179.6

Vehicle Height 52.1

Vehicle Width 68.3

Front Headroom N/R

Front Legroom N/R

Curb Weight 3,144

Gross Vehicle Weight N/R

Seating Capacity 4/N/R passengers



HMMMMMM-22 pounds different, that is one HUGE difference. Plus you had 2 people in your car---the accord weighed more at the time. :rofl:

What finger?!? I don't geeet iit?!? lol

i mean traction

He probably spun the tires on purpose, I've done that and lost a race before. Just for something to do. Plus I've flicked Honda's off just because they are a riced honda. Didnt even race them.
Plus I don't consider a 5-oh mustang a muscle car. Real muscle cars were heavier with big blocks and didn't have as much problem with traction.

Maybe he just has too many points on his license and didn't want to all out race. You know street racing is automatic license suspension.
And anyway how far did you take it? What did you beat him to like 40 then quit and say you one? LOL, thats a typical ricer. It's not a race unless you hit 100 MPH.

Specs from autotrader.com:
91 accord:
Wheelbase 107.1

Overall Length 184.8

Vehicle Height 52.8

Vehicle Width 67.9

Front Headroom N/R

Front Legroom N/R

Curb Weight 3,122

Gross Vehicle Weight N/R


92 mustang:
Manufacturer Code No Data

Wheelbase 100.5

Overall Length 179.6

Vehicle Height 52.1

Vehicle Width 68.3

Front Headroom N/R

Front Legroom N/R

Curb Weight 3,144

Gross Vehicle Weight N/R

Seating Capacity 4/N/R passengers



HMMMMMM-22 pounds different, that is one HUGE difference. Plus you had 2 people in your car---the accord weighed more at the time. :rofl:



autotrader says that the 91 accord weighs 2857

Maybe he just has too many points on his license and didn't want to all out race. You know street racing is automatic license suspension.
And anyway how far did you take it? What did you beat him to like 40 then quit and say you one? LOL, thats a typical ricer. It's not a race unless you hit 100 MPH.


we stopped at 110 and he was one and maybe a half car lenth behind us

autotrader says that the 91 accord weighs 2857

Well I pulled those numbers right off autotrader.
Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, 300 pounds isn't going to make up for 85 HP, let alone well over 100 ft/lbs of torque.

He must have started late, just playing catch-up. He didn't notice your were racing until you were several car lengths in front.
Or maybe he missed a shift.

Are you kidding me? That accord runs a 16 second quarter mile! Full size trucks run faster than that. Ive owned a 91 5.0, and at the same time my gf had an accord which I drove sometimes. The Accord is a total DOG compared to a 5.0, you guys must be smoking crack.

OK who started this crap??? First of all let me state that I am not a ricer nor a musclehead, I go wkith whatever works period! So with that said let me rub a little reality into your head. First of all the Japs do build more reliable cars, don't beleave me just read any JD power or Edmunds, or Consumers report on avrage they beat us bad in that catagory. Yes it is true that we genraly make our sports cars with more power because the Japs are under a self imposed law stating that they cannot make cars with over 276hp, although they lie a little about their hp specs all the time (the 276hp Supra actualy makes about 320hp on the dyno) (the 276 HP Evo 6 made about 305) so on so forth. So what this boils down to is that American muscle can genraly whoop the Japs in a streight line, but since the Japs have put much more value on their cornering they thrash us there. Just compare the cornering numbers on a Camaro SS to the Evo 8 and you will see what I am saying. I for one prefer handeling over accelaration, so I genraly prefer cars like the 240SX and the RX7, while some people like nothing but a car that will slam you in the back of the seat, and that is your choice but to say that ours are just better is a dumb and unfounded statement. If that were true than Jap cars would have never cought on here to begin with. Just think about it for a second. My dad who grew up with nothing but American muscle his whole life bought a Toyota when gas prices shot up in the early 70's and he has never gone back. (none of them has ever broken down in 30 year of driving that I know of) the first car that I ever drove was an American V8 and the first time that I drove a Toyota I never looked back. I have owned two Toyotas (both of which I loved) and yesterday I started shoping for my third,(only once a Toyota left me on the side of the road and that was after a 55mph collision that totaled both cars!) and untill Detroid builds them BETTER than the Japs I will continue to buy them.

OK who started this crap??? First of all let me state that I am not a ricer nor a musclehead, I go wkith whatever works period! So with that said let me rub a little reality into your head. First of all the Japs do build more reliable cars, don't beleave me just read any JD power or Edmunds, or Consumers report on avrage they beat us bad in that catagory. Yes it is true that we genraly make our sports cars with more power because the Japs are under a self imposed law stating that they cannot make cars with over 276hp, although they lie a little about their hp specs all the time (the 276hp Supra actualy makes about 320hp on the dyno) (the 276 HP Evo 6 made about 305) so on so forth. So what this boils down to is that American muscle can genraly whoop the Japs in a streight line, but since the Japs have put much more value on their cornering they thrash us there. Just compare the cornering numbers on a Camaro SS to the Evo 8 and you will see what I am saying. I for one prefer handeling over accelaration, so I genraly prefer cars like the 240SX and the RX7, while some people like nothing but a car that will slam you in the back of the seat, and that is your choice but to say that ours are just better is a dumb and unfounded statement. If that were true than Jap cars would have never cought on here to begin with. Just think about it for a second. My dad who grew up with nothing but American muscle his whole life bought a Toyota when gas prices shot up in the early 70's and he has never gone back. (none of them has ever broken down in 30 year of driving that I know of) the first car that I ever drove was an American V8 and the first time that I drove a Toyota I never looked back. I have owned two Toyotas (both of which I loved) and yesterday I started shoping for my third,(only once a Toyota left me on the side of the road and that was after a 55mph collision that totaled both cars!) and untill Detroid builds them BETTER than the Japs I will continue to buy them.

I agree with Jared to a point, if you are looking for a nice reliable grocery getter, nothing beats a cheap import. I find it funny when these import drivers think their econobox is a sports car. Im reffering to cars like Honda/Acuras not Supras/rx7s.

I also notice people tend to compare brand new imports with older generation american cars. Ofcoarse a 5.0 or other american cars built 10+ years ago wont be as reliable as a 2004 import. When making comparisons, you also have to keep in mind the cost of the cars. You cant compare a $50,000 car to a $10,000 car. You have to compare apples to apples, and when you do that you will notice that most new american cars meet or exceed the reliability the japanese cars provide.

I agree with Jared to a point, if you are looking for a nice reliable grocery getter, nothing beats a cheap import. I find it funny when these import drivers think their econobox is a sports car. Im reffering to cars like Honda/Acuras not Supras/rx7s.

I also notice people tend to compare brand new imports with older generation american cars. Ofcoarse a 5.0 or other american cars built 10+ years ago wont be as reliable as a 2004 import. When making comparisons, you also have to keep in mind the cost of the cars. You cant compare a $50,000 car to a $10,000 car. You have to compare apples to apples, and when you do that you will notice that most new american cars meet or exceed the reliability the japanese cars provide.


Yea most young punks think that since they own a Civic or a Sentra, all they need is a cold air intake and crome exaust tip to somke a Stang or Camaro. The truth of the matter is that those Civics that really can take a V8 have thousands of dollars in modifacations, and most likley a really smart builder behind them. But I was comparing apples to apples when I compared the SS to the Evo here are the stats. 2002 Camaro 29k (base), 13.5 1/4 mile 310hp, .87g 200ft skidpad, aprox 3400lbs to the 2004 Evo 28k (base) 13.06 1/4 mile, 271hp, .97g on the 200ft skidpad, 3268lbs. That is as fare a comparison as you can make since they don't build the Camaro anymore, and I wanted to use the camaro since it is faster than the Stang in stock form. If you know of any other under 30k American car that would be a better representitive please let me know. The American cars do not quite match the Japs for reliability yet although they are narrowing the gap every year, in fact the 2002 Camaro/Firebird was above avarage reliability according to JD power, which is quite an accomplishment for an American sportscar and even I would risk the ridicule of my ricer friends to own one. (if only it could tow my boat). One more thing watch out for a few American cars in particular when it comes to reliability, most of the FWDs are particularly bad in this area. (Focus, Cavilar, Neon...ect) (Americans should stick to building RWD anyway we are good at it)

Yea most young punks think that since they own a Civic or a Sentra, all they need is a cold air intake and crome exaust tip to somke a Stang or Camaro. The truth of the matter is that those Civics that really can take a V8 have thousands of dollars in modifacations, and most likley a really smart builder behind them. But I was comparing apples to apples when I compared the SS to the Evo here are the stats. 2002 Camaro 29k (base), 13.5 1/4 mile 310hp, .87g 200ft skidpad, aprox 3400lbs to the 2004 Evo 28k (base) 13.06 1/4 mile, 271hp, .97g on the 200ft skidpad, 3268lbs. That is as fare a comparison as you can make since they don't build the Camaro anymore, and I wanted to use the camaro since it is faster than the Stang in stock form. If you know of any other under 30k American car that would be a better representitive please let me know. The American cars do not quite match the Japs for reliability yet although they are narrowing the gap every year, in fact the 2002 Camaro/Firebird was above avarage reliability according to JD power, which is quite an accomplishment for an American sportscar and even I would risk the ridicule of my ricer friends to own one. (if only it could tow my boat). One more thing watch out for a few American cars in particular when it comes to reliability, most of the FWDs are particularly bad in this area. (Focus, Cavilar, Neon...ect) (Americans should stick to building RWD anyway we are good at it)

The SS is a great value for what it costs, and it actually comes very underrated from the factory. The 01-02 LS1s actually dyno 320-330rwhp to the wheels. Which is actually ~380hp at the crank considering a 15% drivetrain loss. These things run almost identical times as the Corvette. With a competant driver 01/02 LS1s can run a high 12 sec 1/4 mile in stock showroom floor form. I dont pay much attention to stats found in magazines because I have found them to be false and inconsistant on many occations. Just look at the #s they got for the 03 Cobra, they are ridiculous. In the case of the Evo it is a GREAT performer, and its one of the very few cars I can respect from Japan. You mentioned a 13.06 1/4 mile time, while im not saying thats not possible, when Ive seen them run at the track, they usually pull anywhere between 13.6-14.5 depending on how hard they dump the clutch. But im sure they can out handle the SS, although I dont think it will outhandle the camaro with 1LA, which consists of a Bilstien suspension package. The problem I see with the Evo in terms of sales, is that its essensially a Lancer with more power, and thats how the majority of the population will see it. Believe it or not, we, the performance car enthusiasts, are a small minority in the car market. Cars like the Mustang & Corvette have a long heritage and appeal to a bigger majority including us car nuts. Thats why they have been succesfull for so long. A regular joe shmoe will not go pay $30,000 for a lancer. But he will most likely fork out 21k for a GT, 29k for a cobra, or 50k for the infamous corvette. If you want proof of this, look around on your local streets, try to find how many Evos you see cruising around, Ive never seen one in Dallas, and only saw 1 in Austin when I lived there. Im not talking about the track, just everyday driving. Thats why I think the Evo will not last very long in the US car market.

For me personally, I want a car that has a flat tourqe curve throughout the entire powerband. Turbo 4 bangers can make great power with alot of PSI moving through it, but it wont make real power until it reaches real high rpms (read: S2000). I spend most of my time between 1000-3000 rpm driving on the street, and thats where I want power, aswell as upper rpms. Thats what makes it fun to drive. Unfortunatly a v8+ is the only way to achieve this. For an example, when im launching, I launch off the idle, and feather the gas/clutch. An evo has to burn its clutch, and launch 4000+ rpms, try launching that evo without a clutch dump, and see what kind of times it runs...I will guess 14.5+. Not dissing the Evo, just personal prefference here.


Sorry, went off on a rant! :iceslolan

The SS is a great value for what it costs, and it actually comes very underrated from the factory. The 01-02 LS1s actually dyno 320-330rwhp to the wheels. Which is actually ~380hp at the crank considering a 15% drivetrain loss. These things run almost identical times as the Corvette. With a competant driver 01/02 LS1s can run a high 12 sec 1/4 mile in stock showroom floor form. I dont pay much attention to stats found in magazines because I have found them to be false and inconsistant on many occations. Just look at the #s they got for the 03 Cobra, they are ridiculous. In the case of the Evo it is a GREAT performer, and its one of the very few cars I can respect from Japan. You mentioned a 13.06 1/4 mile time, while im not saying thats not possible, when Ive seen them run at the track, they usually pull anywhere between 13.6-14.5 depending on how hard they dump the clutch. But im sure they can out handle the SS, although I dont think it will outhandle the camaro with 1LA, which consists of a Bilstien suspension package. The problem I see with the Evo in terms of sales, is that its essensially a Lancer with more power, and thats how the majority of the population will see it. Believe it or not, we, the performance car enthusiasts, are a small minority in the car market. Cars like the Mustang & Corvette have a long heritage and appeal to a bigger majority including us car nuts. Thats why they have been succesfull for so long. A regular joe shmoe will not go pay $30,000 for a lancer. But he will most likely fork out 21k for a GT, 29k for a cobra, or 50k for the infamous corvette. If you want proof of this, look around on your local streets, try to find how many Evos you see cruising around, Ive never seen one in Dallas, and only saw 1 in Austin when I lived there. Im not talking about the track, just everyday driving. Thats why I think the Evo will not last very long in the US car market.

For me personally, I want a car that has a flat tourqe curve throughout the entire powerband. Turbo 4 bangers can make great power with alot of PSI moving through it, but it wont make real power until it reaches real high rpms (read: S2000). I spend most of my time between 1000-3000 rpm driving on the street, and thats where I want power, aswell as upper rpms. Thats what makes it fun to drive. Unfortunatly a v8+ is the only way to achieve this. For an example, when im launching, I launch off the idle, and feather the gas/clutch. An evo has to burn its clutch, and launch 4000+ rpms, try launching that evo without a clutch dump, and see what kind of times it runs...I will guess 14.5+. Not dissing the Evo, just personal prefference here.


Sorry, went off on a rant! :iceslolan




There is no denying that the Z28 and SS were great cars for the money, but I have never heard of one that can do the 600ft slolom at over 71mph. That is faster than any Vette ever made. If you look at Motor Trend they say that the 02 SS does the 1/4 in 13.5, now I am not saying that it is not possable to do it any better but they have pretty good drivers there. In fact they were the ones who got that Evo to 13.06. Yea I know that the Evos lanuch is based on how harsh you are on the clutch, and that the stock cluch is not as good as it should be, but all in all I still say that the Evo is a top of the line car. As far as how many of them are around I don't know about in Texas, but even in po-dunk south Mississippi there are several real Evos running around. (plus a few wannabees with body kits) Plus you gatta consider that they have only been out for less than a year now, give them a little time to catch on. By the way the Evo spools up (making its full 19psi of boost) at only 3000RPM so you don't have to run redline to get decent power like with the NA 4 bangers. You do have a point about the NA V8s great low end power, but on the track that does not matter and that is where the Evo seemes to shine the brightest.

Agreed. :)

By the way, I would expect them to have a much better time with the Evo than a tourqey RWD anyday. AWD are MUCH easier to launch, takes alot of the guesswork & practice out of the launch. Unlike launching...my car lol. I cant control the wheel spin. My 1-2 shift gets me almost sideways no matter what rpm I shift at. Feels like I lose .3 sec just in that shift. 2-3 shift kicks the back out also, and loses more time by spinning the tires more. This was my experience on street tires, and the drag radials make a huge difference, which showed in my times. I went from a 13.9 to 13.4. Not bad, still has more in it.

So this whole import vs. domsestic thing really is a bunch of crap. If you love hairpin turns, brain jarring breaking, and don't mind a 1/2 second lag on accelaration, go import. If you want instant power, and a flat torque curve from idel to redline, and don't mind having to slow down a little in the corners go American Iron. Both do a great job at what they are built for and the Americans are starting to catch up with the Japs in reliability, and fuel efficency. But whatever you do don't buy one of those wannabe jap cars, the Kias are crap, and the American built jap wanabees are below par (except for the SRT-4). And for Pete's sake if you do go American GET A RWD!

I tell you what, American cars aren't what they used to be but nobody can deny the American muscle cars from the 60's and 70's being better than the japanese stuff unless you like inline-4's for some reason :lol2: . So if power and styling doesn't matter to you you most likely own a japanese car.

I tell you what, American cars aren't what they used to be but nobody can deny the American muscle cars from the 60's and 70's being better than the japanese stuff unless you like inline-4's for some reason :lol2: . So if power and styling doesn't matter to you you most likely own a japanese car.


What planet do you live on? Have you even seen an RX7 or a 350Z? Are you trying to tell me that that is not styling? Granted the late 60's cars had a certain look to them that was haunting, but to say that the R390 was not a piece of art on wheels is insanity. You have probably never seen a Toyota GT1 have you? Do you know what an NSX is? And what is wrong with four cylinders?? If I am making more HP and more torque out of a 2.0 than your 5.7, where is the disadvantage? A few years ago I compared the Evo 6 to the Z28, and the Evo 6 had not only more HP but more low end torque too!!! All in a lighter car with much better traction and AWD! Take your narrow minded crap and go argue with those idiot ricers. You know the ones that think that they have V4s and think that turbos make forced injection. You will have no trouble finding your mindless arguments in there.

So this whole import vs. domsestic thing really is a bunch of crap. If you love hairpin turns, brain jarring breaking, and don't mind a 1/2 second lag on accelaration, go import. If you want instant power, and a flat torque curve from idel to redline, and don't mind having to slow down a little in the corners go American Iron. Both do a great job at what they are built for and the Americans are starting to catch up with the Japs in reliability, and fuel efficency. But whatever you do don't buy one of those wannabe jap cars, the Kias are crap, and the American built jap wanabees are below par (except for the SRT-4). And for Pete's sake if you do go American GET A RWD!


Umm, I dont slow down for turns?? And I have awsome braking...and I have no lag on power either.

Oh yea, and I get 24mpg in the city too, & never had any reliability issues. There is something that my car can do that no import ever can...sound good! It has balls ;)

What planet do you live on? Have you even seen an RX7 or a 350Z? Are you trying to tell me that that is not styling? Granted the late 60's cars had a certain look to them that was haunting, but to say that the R390 was not a piece of art on wheels is insanity. You have probably never seen a Toyota GT1 have you? Do you know what an NSX is? And what is wrong with four cylinders?? If I am making more HP and more torque out of a 2.0 than your 5.7, where is the disadvantage? A few years ago I compared the Evo 6 to the Z28, and the Evo 6 had not only more HP but more low end torque too!!! All in a lighter car with much better traction and AWD! Take your narrow minded crap and go argue with those idiot ricers. You know the ones that think that they have V4s and think that turbos make forced injection. You will have no trouble finding your mindless arguments in there.

first of all, I know all the cars you are talking about, R390, GT-one, nsx etc.(to be honest the best look I've had at a GT1 is from Gran Turismo 3)
second the GTO is 6.5 not 5.7, the new GTO is 5.7.
third how much hp does your 2.0 make?, I guarantee that the engine on my 69' makes plenty more.
forth I agree with you that the R390 is a beautiful automobile and that japanese cars aren't without, their charms, but you have to admit the GT-one looks a little wierd doesn't it? I'm not like those bloody idiots you are refering to, I have had conversations with them and they don't know what the hell they're talking about. That is funny that they think they have v-4's, isn't it. back to subject no matter how much it seems like I am, I'm not trying to offend you, im sorry if i did.

well this is a lil off the topic but i do have a point. in the early 80s there was a comparison between a datsun pick up with a four banger and dodge ram with a v6. the dodge ram had more power then the datsun but the datsun still towed more weight had better fuel economy.

And that means what mike? Less displacement makes more tourqe? :eek7:

Umm, I dont slow down for turns?? And I have awsome braking...and I have no lag on power either.

Sorry the Japs make the best breaking sportscars Evo does 60-0 in 106ft much better than any Stang. And that lag in power that I was talking about is for the turbo imports.

first of all, I know all the cars you are talking about, R390, GT-one, nsx etc.(to be honest the best look I've had at a GT1 is from Gran Turismo 3)
second the GTO is 6.5 not 5.7, the new GTO is 5.7.
third how much hp does your 2.0 make?, I guarantee that the engine on my 69' makes plenty more.
forth I agree with you that the R390 is a beautiful automobile and that japanese cars aren't without, their charms, but you have to admit the GT-one looks a little wierd doesn't it? I'm not like those bloody idiots you are refering to, I have had conversations with them and they don't know what the hell they're talking about. That is funny that they think they have v-4's, isn't it. back to subject no matter how much it seems like I am, I'm not trying to offend you, im sorry if i did.


I used the 5.7 comparison because people usualy caompare the Camaro to the Evo I have never riden in a 60s GTO so I cannot campare with those. Don't worry it takes alot to really offend me, it's all good. I love talking with those ricer idiots, they make me feel smarter every time I write them, "I'm gaanna slap a cld ar intke on mi civk and smok your muzteng". It is like arguing in the retard community just with alot more cussing.

Sorry the Japs make the best breaking sportscars Evo does 60-0 in 106ft much better than any Stang. And that lag in power that I was talking about is for the turbo imports.

Jared, put the magazines down please. My stang hadled and brakes like a champ, straight from the factory. With a simple spring/shock settup I have now, I can out corner almost anything on the road. Its MORE than enough cornering/braking ability that I will EVER use on the street. I dont autox so I really dont care if there is a jap car somewhere that can slalom, .05 g's better than my car. It makes no difference. Because fact is I have a better all around package, I have all the handling & braking I can possibly use, plus I have mounds of tourque, and a low 13 second car. (easily high 12 sec, with the proper suspension settup). And my car sounds good while doing it. And like I told you in the beggining, go out there and see for yourself, stop reading magazines, their #s are skewed to hell. I get my #s from the track.

I also like how you generalize "jap cars are better in blah blah...", fact is most jap cars are NOT better performance in anything. There is a couple out of the slew of under achievers, that are descent and they cost $30,000+. I paid 21K for my car, find me a Jap car to contend with me on my price level please. :loser:

[QUOTE=skrow03GT]And that means what mike? Less displacement makes more tourqe? :eek7

nope my point is there is replacement for displacement

[QUOTE=skrow03GT]And that means what mike? Less displacement makes more tourqe? :eek7

nope my point is there is replacement for displacement

Ok, youre comparing a 4cyl datsun truck, and a 6cyl dodge truck in the 80s??? :screwy: The only way I see this possible is if the datsun truck was a small light truck, and the dodge was a big heavy truck. That sais nothing about engine displacement, you even stated the v6 made more hp/tq. Plus, where did you get this information?

The only thing that can help smaller displacement is a power adder, which can also be added to the higher displacement, so in essence, no...there is no replacement for displacement.

Ok, youre comparing a 4cyl datsun truck, and a 6cyl dodge truck in the 80s??? :screwy: The only way I see this possible is if the datsun truck was a small light truck, and the dodge was a big heavy truck. That sais nothing about engine displacement, you even stated the v6 made more hp/tq. Plus, where did you get this information?

The only thing that can help smaller displacement is a power adder, which can also be added to the higher displacement, so in essence, no...there is no replacement for displacement.


y not go read something before you assume someone is lieing. there was a documentary about japanese production there where motorcycles ans generators. what does size of the truck have to do with towing amount?

What do you mean? Use some common sense, It has to tow its own weight first, if it weighs 4000lb compared to a lightweight 2800lb thats a big difference. Why are you comparing 2 odd trucks from the 80s? Are you trying to tell me a 4banger has better towing capacity, stop being a moron.

you guys need to get a life, your fighting over cars, i like cars a lot too, but fighting like you guys do is pathetic, its so stupid and pointless, muscle cars are fast, but they cant do shit on a circuit like japanese cars can do, so each cars have their ups and downs

It all depends on how you take care of your auto! However, here's spme of my experiences since everyone is stating their opinion . . .

I had a 1984 Jeep Cherokee with a Chrysler, cast iron 4 that put 469,000 miles on it before I sold it to my dad and he put on another 89,000 before he sold it.

My Ford Explorer V8 all wheel drive has 89,000 miles on it and I have not done anything but maintanance on it and still get 19 mpg on trips and nobody passes me - I ordered the same engine that went into the Mustang Cobra that year!

I have to agree that some jap cars are better but look at their price tags and still . . . still no one makes the power cars Americans do and the sound is not the same coming out of a jap so called muscle car . . . we invented - we still claim it - go American!

Listen to American muscle car sounds at www.flowmastermufflers.com and tell me which sounds better - American or Jap?

first thing is please dont say 'jap' why can't you just use import, or asian import, or japanese import, but jap, seems kinda racist, and comparing to sounds i like japanese cars better who would want their car to be loud as hell and give out no power like many muscle cars i've seen

i like both imports and domestics. Just like the title "There really is no point to this." there really is no point to my answer, but normal ppl dont know a dang bout performance so i think joe noone will buy a $25000 05 300hp mustang gt over a 05 $30000 Lancer Evo cause of more hp for less no matter that the evo will prolly perform better.

Oh I'm sorry I'll say Japanese like you did in the reply above me, big difference! IMPORTS have tried for years to imitate what we invented and if it was about noise then the Japanese would not have come over here in the mid 90s and paid outlandish prices for US Muscle cars!

They actually drove the prices up for a few years and many of the hot ones still retain those prices.

You want power & noise (that's a Muscle car) then you go with the good ol USA!!!

I amonly making the post because I see you guys arguing about the corolla and grand prix and which is better. I have owned both. While the Grand Prix GTP had a lot more power and was more fun to drive, the reliability sucked. something was always wrong. My corolla was an '87. I never put a dime into repairs, just gas and oil. I was really sad when I wrecked the grand prix, but I really dont think it would have lasted anywhere close to the 17(and counting) years my corolla has. the grand prix was a '95. I am also going to have to agree with the people know american cars aren't as good as. Love my country and all, but I would buy a nissan or a toyota.

Jared, put the magazines down please. My stang hadled and brakes like a champ, straight from the factory. With a simple spring/shock settup I have now, I can out corner almost anything on the road. Its MORE than enough cornering/braking ability that I will EVER use on the street. I dont autox so I really dont care if there is a jap car somewhere that can slalom, .05 g's better than my car. It makes no difference. Because fact is I have a better all around package, I have all the handling & braking I can possibly use, plus I have mounds of tourque, and a low 13 second car. (easily high 12 sec, with the proper suspension settup). And my car sounds good while doing it. And like I told you in the beggining, go out there and see for yourself, stop reading magazines, their #s are skewed to hell. I get my #s from the track.

I also like how you generalize "jap cars are better in blah blah...", fact is most jap cars are NOT better performance in anything. There is a couple out of the slew of under achievers, that are descent and they cost $30,000+. I paid 21K for my car, find me a Jap car to contend with me on my price level please. :loser:


The base Evo is 28k and the faster RS is only 26k get your numbers right. Is the extra 5k worth the 1.4 seconds faster 0-60? Is it worth the faster breaking? is it worth the extra.09g? To me darn right it is, you try to find me an American car for under 30k that can match the Evo in half of the major proformance catagories (1/4 mile, 0-60, 60-0....ect). Go ahead and try. I am no ricer but I will not let sombody just bash the best import sportscar around either. Reserch it for yourself and you will see what I mean. Later. :loser:

Sure, 03 cobra comes to mind its a mid to high 12 sec car from the showroom floor. It sounds good, has tourque across the powerband for fun daily driving, has muscle car looks to match. It comes with IRS, its handling is nice, although not as good as the evos , but like I said the minute .0x variables in handling argument is stupid. It is not difficult to achieve 1.xx+ Gs on a skidpad, which is impressive for a 3600~lb car. If you dont think so, maybe you should stob by and talk to the guys from corner-carvers.com.

The 0-60 is stats for the Evo are decietfull also, considering you have todo high rpm clutch dumps to achieve this. Your clutch wont be up for that very long, and im not sure if its the wrx or the evo that has the horribly weak transmision.

Point is while an Evo huffs and puffs in double digit PSI numbers, and clutch burning launches to achieve its best numbers, its not practical power that is available under your right foot when compared to a broad tourqe curved supercharged v8 that is boosted at a concervative ~8PSI. The 03 Cobra guys are making 500rwhp and similar tourqe from boltons. Using the stock fuel system, ignition, untouched block, etc.

Dont get me wrong, I respect a Evo, but like I addressed in a previous post, you are in essense buying a $30,000 lancer, For that amount of $$ I would MUCH rather be seen in a Cobra or a used C5 corvette. Thats just my opinion though.

You never answered my question either, find me something to compete with my GT for 20~k from Japan... Im not talking about striped down base models either?? Mine is premium (leather, 2-tone, in dash 6 disk changer, 460watt 6 speaker stereo, power seat, etc) with the interior upgrade package, and cobra rims!

Also, 1.4 seconds?? Are you trying to tell me a 99+ GT runs 14.7? LOL

100% stock GTs run anywhere from 13.8-14.2. Mine ran 14.01 @ 99mph and it was capable of a high 13 sec time stock. Its as simple as tires and you are looking @ 13.7s.

Evos run 13.3s at best, with a majority of them running between 13.6-14.5s as Ive witnessed at the track. Where is the 1.4 sec difference? If anything its 0.5 seconds.

Lets recap, 5,000rpm clutch dumps to achieve those times, go to the Evo board and notice people needing to change their clutch @ 2000 miles on the car. No Thanks.

Not to mention the fastest Evo in the states is only runing 11.6 times, thats WITH nitrous. Cars in its price class like the 03+ Cobra are doing that with minimal bolt-ons + tires with the faster ones in the low 10s with untouched block & IRS.

http://www.fordpower.net/forums/timeslips.php?

The sad part is, with all the $$ invested in the Evo, it has to use wild cams, lots of porting work, and race gas! These guys in 03 cobras are runing those times with 1/5th invested in simple bolt-ons. Alot of them doing this with factory warranties, try bringing your Evo in to service with engine work, and see how long it takes them to laugh you off the lot. :rofl:

You never answered my question either, find me something to compete with my GT for 20~k from Japan... Im not talking about striped down base models either?? Mine is premium (leather, 2-tone, in dash 6 disk changer, 460watt 6 speaker stereo, power seat, etc) with the interior upgrade package, and cobra rims![/QUOTE]



well how bout a silvia with a sr20det

how bout an FTO with v6

Mike is that a US car thats currently produced? Is the sr20det the engine that comes in the car stock? Never heard of a FTO either?

Mike is that a US car thats currently produced? Is the sr20det the engine that comes in the car stock? Never heard of a FTO either?


yes the sr20det is the stock engine, and oh now it has to be a production car all i saww was a car from japan, ok fine how bout a 1999 eclipse GSX in 1999 on could be had for 23000

Mike is that a US car thats currently produced? Is the sr20det the engine that comes in the car stock? Never heard of a FTO either?


now you now that americas rules and regs for forion cars to be production over here it has to be downtuned

ans the fto is a mitsubishi, and if you had never heard of it then you need to stop comparing japanese import to american cuz you dont know much about japanese cars. look it up and learn.

not like american cars can do shit,
all they can do well is a 1/4, thats just as bad as nascar, but nobody figures it out, muscle cars have the worst handling, plus who would want to go in a straight line when you can do curves done a mountain road?

Ofcoarse it has to be a production car, why the hell would I want to compare to something I cant buy?? Also, I could care less what they produce in Japan only. I live in America, you cant buy those cars.

Sorry, but the 1999 Eclipse GSX is not going to beat a 99 Mustang GT stock vs. stock. Try again though. They will run a mid-high 14 second quarter mile stock though, which is close. Then again it relies on AWD, so it would get murdered from a roll.

gigle, what are you talking about? Im just wondering, what kind of cars do you and mike drive? Ive owned 3 jap cars and 2 mustangs in the last few years. My current Mustang can handle great, it would out handle that riced out civic that im sure both of you worship. I tear it up on twisty roads, you must be comparing muscle cars of the 60's??? Its 2004, get a grip.

Ofcoarse it has to be a production car, why the hell would I want to compare to something I cant buy?? Also, I could care less what they produce in Japan only. I live in America, you cant buy those cars.

Sorry, but the 1999 Eclipse GSX is not going to beat a 99 Mustang GT stock vs. stock. Try again though. They will run a mid-high 14 second quarter mile stock though, which is close. Then again it relies on AWD, so it would get murdered from a roll.

gigle, what are you talking about? Im just wondering, what kind of cars do you and mike drive? Ive owned 3 jap cars and 2 mustangs in the last few years. My current Mustang can handle great, it would out handle that riced out civic that im sure both of you worship. I tear it up on twisty roads, you must be comparing muscle cars of the 60's??? Its 2004, get a grip.


not all import fans love the civic i love more along the lines of a skyline, 3000gt or a 240zx. and why do people think that 4bangers cant start from a roll my grad am 2.2 liter 4 can run 60 to 80 in bout 4 and a half sec. ok so the eclpise will lose from a roll but what about a twistie road.

It loses from a role because its AWD.

60-80 in 4.5 sec? :lol2:

My car handles great on a "twisty road". Goto www.corner-carvers.com

Who races on the street around twisty turns? Thats retarted.

Who races on the street around twisty turns? Thats retarted.
Yeah, just go buy an old 6 cylinder Buick, put a couple of G's in it and do 10's! The pic is the burnout before a low 11's run.
Jeff
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/126915bluesmokes-med.jpg

It loses from a role because its AWD.

60-80 in 4.5 sec? :lol2:

My car handles great on a "twisty road". Goto www.corner-carvers.com

Who races on the street around twisty turns? Thats retarted.


i have a 3000 lbs ecno car with a 145 hp engine what do you expect my point was i know the evo will get from 60 to 80 in 2 sec.

It loses from a role because its AWD.

60-80 in 4.5 sec? :lol2:

My car handles great on a "twisty road". Goto www.corner-carvers.com

Who races on the street around twisty turns? Thats retarted.


as for ya twisty comment ahhh autocross. if i could afford it i would the heck with drag racing thats my oppinion of course.

who would want their car to be loud as hell and give out no power like many muscle cars i've seen

:banghead:

Oh, now hang on a minute.

You can't say something like that, you say Muscle Cars are loud with no power? Please, I mean come on, you give me a factory produced Japanese car from the late 60s that was as loud and had as much power as ANY Muscle Car did. May I ask if you have ever heard a 426 Hemi in the metal? Have you ever read ANY technical information on 30 year old Muscle Cars? Yes, they don't have the best handling around but you are probably basing that off the 30 year old technology that they are running on. You can always buy better disc brakes and better springs and shock absorbers, but you can never buy what Muscle Cars bought to the world, no matter what.
No cars will ever compare to the true beauty of Muscle Cars. You said we need a live, fighting over cars, no one is fighting, it's an argument, you know. A conversation when opinions don't agree with each other.

Think proper statistics before you post silly things. Alot of cars would not exist today if Muscle Cars weren't around to inspire the designers.

:banghead:

Oh, now hang on a minute.

You can't say something like that, you say Muscle Cars are loud with no power? Please, I mean come on, you give me a factory produced Japanese car from the late 60s that was as loud and had as much power as ANY Muscle Car did. May I ask if you have ever heard a 426 Hemi in the metal? Have you ever read ANY technical information on 30 year old Muscle Cars? Yes, they don't have the best handling around but you are probably basing that off the 30 year old technology that they are running on. You can always buy better disc brakes and better springs and shock absorbers, but you can never buy what Muscle Cars bought to the world, no matter what.
No cars will ever compare to the true beauty of Muscle Cars. You said we need a live, fighting over cars, no one is fighting, it's an argument, you know. A conversation when opinions don't agree with each other.

Think proper statistics before you post silly things. Alot of cars would not exist today if Muscle Cars weren't around to inspire the designers.



only america is going the way of muscle cars. i hate the idea of so much power not getting to the ground. dont have 400 hosres and 0-60 your is being beat by a 4 banger with 271 hp, your 1/4 miles time is better by a few 100s of a sec. you top speed are both governed at a few apart, your handles dont even compare. my point ever one rants aneaves about sound i say so what. i want a sleeper car not something that other residents would complain about. and most of all torque and power means nothing if ya have trouble getting it to the ground. oh and in the late 60s japan was content with putting tvs in ya home.

Holy crap learn how to type properly, I feel like I just read a post in Slovakian.
Your enthusiasm to cars is of little of value to me, especially reading the first line in your signature.
Also, yes there is more to racing then a straight line, there are many forms of racing and drag racing is one of them. You obviously like drag racing if you take bullshit lines from those stupid Fast and Furious movies because those '10 second cars' were all about it. There is no need to disrespect Nascar either, it's the art of racing at high level speed, one small mistake can cost you your life. That means you are always filled with adrenaline, if you don't like it then, that's great but I don't care.
I would never call someone like you a real car enthusiast. To me a real car enthusiast is someone who has the utmost respect for all forms of cars, especially the eras of cars that started most of the crazes today, you are not one of those people.

Edit: Sorry, we are talking about cars here, not TV :rolleyes:
We are, right? :uhoh:

:cya: well nascar is sure :sleeping: :sleep: to watch after the first lap. but...mostly :iamwithst and..."oh and in the late 60s japan was content with putting tvs in ya home"?! what the...!? :cya: :newburn: :swear: :nutkick: :killbarne

[QUOTE=Purpura Delujo]Holy crap learn how to type properly, I feel like I just read a post in Slovakian.
Your enthusiasm to cars is of little of value to me, especially reading the first line in your signature.
Also, yes there is more to racing then a straight line, there are many forms of racing and drag racing is one of them. You obviously like drag racing if you take bullshit lines from those stupid Fast and Furious movies because those '10 second cars' were all about it. There is no need to disrespect Nascar either, it's the art of racing at high level speed, one small mistake can cost you your life. That means you are always filled with adrenaline, if you don't like it then, that's great but I don't care.
I would never call someone like you a real car enthusiast. To me a real car enthusiast is someone who has the utmost respect for all forms of cars, especially the eras of cars that started most of the crazes today, you are not one of those people.

Edit: Sorry, we are talking about cars here, not TV :rolleyes:
We are, right? :uhoh:

car enthusiast? well seeing how i prefer great power to rate ratio, and handles. yea im more like an japanese import enthusiast

Good, then stop saying shit about cars you know nothing about.

Also, 1.4 seconds?? Are you trying to tell me a 99+ GT runs 14.7? LOL

100% stock GTs run anywhere from 13.8-14.2. Mine ran 14.01 @ 99mph and it was capable of a high 13 sec time stock. Its as simple as tires and you are looking @ 13.7s.

Evos run 13.3s at best, with a majority of them running between 13.6-14.5s as Ive witnessed at the track. Where is the 1.4 sec difference? If anything its 0.5 seconds.

Lets recap, 5,000rpm clutch dumps to achieve those times, go to the Evo board and notice people needing to change their clutch @ 2000 miles on the car. No Thanks.

Not to mention the fastest Evo in the states is only runing 11.6 times, thats WITH nitrous. Cars in its price class like the 03+ Cobra are doing that with minimal bolt-ons + tires with the faster ones in the low 10s with untouched block & IRS.

http://www.fordpower.net/forums/timeslips.php?

The sad part is, with all the $$ invested in the Evo, it has to use wild cams, lots of porting work, and race gas! These guys in 03 cobras are runing those times with 1/5th invested in simple bolt-ons. Alot of them doing this with factory warranties, try bringing your Evo in to service with engine work, and see how long it takes them to laugh you off the lot. :rofl:


Darn mods banned me and now I have to use a new name, fortunetly I can change my name and IP in only about 45 seconds. Anyway this is Jared_80 and what is this carp that you are talking! The Evo runs a 13.0 if you want to argue that argue with motor trend! Yea if you put a stupid driver in it it probably will only run a 14 second 1/4 mile but the same is true for the Cobra too so lets skip the stupid numbers spin and stick with recorded numbers and reality. If you don't want to do that than you are too stupid to argue with anyway. For the seven thousand dollar difference between the Cobra and the Evo I could easly tweek the eve into the low 12s or high 11s. Don't beleve me just read what SCC did to their Evo!! As far as your fastest Evo crap I'll easly find you one that totaly smokes that where do you get this nonesence from???? Anyway I gatta go just keep telling yourself that the SVT will alyays be faster and maby you will convence yourself that it is true in spite of reality, or you can wake up and see that that four door four banger famaly car beats your expensive unpractical unrelieable musclecar in nearly every proformance test. Later

Jesus, why is it all you keyboard cowboy import kids who know nothing about cars always make me end up taking the side of the muscle car guy?

car enthusiast? well seeing how i prefer great power to rate ratio, and handles. yea im more like an japanese import enthusiast

I truly wish you weren't, you're making all of us import drivers look bad. If you're about cars that accelerate fast, corner hard, perform well in general, you're a car enthusiast, cuz there are cars that match that made everywhere. If all you like is japanese imports, you're just as close minded and ignorant as the guys who only like Mustangs or the guys who only like trucks.

All American "Phsyo"... you make one more inflammatory post like that, ANYWHERE, that I see, and you'll be banned again. You don't have to act like an immature asshole to express your opinion. And about your post...

1. I've already told you many times that Motor Trend did not run a 13.0 in that EVO! You are seriously thick headed to still not understand that's a corrected time. Cut the magazine racing already!

2. Low 11's with $7000 in an EVO? :lol: The Norris Designs EVO has over $110,000 invested, and with over 600 hp to the wheels it runs 10.8.

Good, then stop saying shit about cars you know nothing about.


define nothing? lol talking trash no im not i never once said that american muscle is junk or pieces of crap im merely saying that this car is quicker or handles better. i own american.

I truly wish you weren't, you're making all of us import drivers look bad. If you're about cars that accelerate fast, corner hard, perform well in general, you're a car enthusiast, cuz there are cars that match that made everywhere. If all you like is japanese imports, you're just as close minded and ignorant as the guys who only like Mustangs or the guys who only like trucks.



i own a grand am, i do like more then just japanese import i have to talk then up when others are putting them down. y is it that muscle car guys arnt respecting the evo oh my there's a good question?





1. I've already told you many times that Motor Trend did not run a 13.0 in that EVO! You are seriously thick headed to still not understand that's a corrected time. Cut the magazine racing already!


ok did i read wrong when i read Motor trend ran a 13.08 in the evo?
i do wear glasses.


2. Low 11's with $7000 in an EVO? :lol: The Norris Designs EVO has over $110,000 invested, and with over 600 hp to the wheels it runs 10.8.

did they not know what they were doing $110,000 invested in my car i could do that or better.

ok did i read wrong when i read Motor trend ran a 13.08 in the evo?
i do wear glasses.

What are you Jared's alter-ego? Yes it says "13.08" for the EVO in Motor Trend. No they did not run a 13.08. That's a corrected time. Do you know what that means? You guys make it seem like it's rocket science or something.

im not even going to try arguing here anymore, its like a couple import fans, and the whole muscle car forum, what the hell is the point?
i dont care on how a car looks or sounds, it all matters on speed handling, and lots of power isn't always a good thing, to me american cars are unreliable they suck when i was younger, every american car my parents had owned had broken down more than once a year, now all they drive is japanese toyotas and hondas and other cars like that, and my mom has only had to get it into the shop once, and that was when a dear jumped in the way

define nothing? lol talking trash no im not i never once said that american muscle is junk or pieces of crap im merely saying that this car is quicker or handles better. i own american.
Well all you have really said is about power to weight and better handling. I think I covered the handling part well by stating the driveline technology in muscle cars is at least 30 years old. So you can't really say they still have crap handling when you take that into mind, unless you are stupid.
Power to weight?

1999 Nissan Skyline GTR
205.8 kw / 276.0 bhp @ 6800 rpm
Torque 293.0 nm / 216.1 ft lbs @ 4400 rpm
1666 kg / 3673 lbs

1970 Plymouth Hemi `Cuda
316.9 kw / 425.0 bhp @ 5000 rpm
664.35 nm / 490.0 ft lbs @ 4000 rpm
1642 kg / 3620 lbs
I don't think you need a calculator, and remember that nearly all of the factory engine statistics for muscle cars were false, very false.

In any way there is no good reason to compare new cars to old cars anyway, they are decades apart in technology and statistics. If you would prefer a 270hp car compared to a 500hp car then that is great. There is still no need to state the obvious, that a new car, in a completely different category, is faster in some stakes then a car that is 30 years old and built on the technology that was available at the time.

If anything I think anyone who likes any car, should love all older cars, just like young people should respect the elderly.

Jesus, why is it all you keyboard cowboy import kids who know nothing about cars always make me end up taking the side of the muscle car guy?



I truly wish you weren't, you're making all of us import drivers look bad. If you're about cars that accelerate fast, corner hard, perform well in general, you're a car enthusiast, cuz there are cars that match that made everywhere. If all you like is japanese imports, you're just as close minded and ignorant as the guys who only like Mustangs or the guys who only like trucks.

All American "Phsyo"... you make one more inflammatory post like that, ANYWHERE, that I see, and you'll be banned again. You don't have to act like an immature asshole to express your opinion. And about your post...

1. I've already told you many times that Motor Trend did not run a 13.0 in that EVO! You are seriously thick headed to still not understand that's a corrected time. Cut the magazine racing already!

2. Low 11's with $7000 in an EVO? :lol: The Norris Designs EVO has over $110,000 invested, and with over 600 hp to the wheels it runs 10.8.

Go ahead and bann me again see if I care you pathetic piece of humanity! We both know why you banned me the first time!! You got your feelings hurt when I corrected you about camber thrust, go ahead and pull up my posts from six months ago, and tell everyone that that is why you banned me, whatever you got your pride hurt and you did not like it so you wanted to get rid of me, one day I correct you the next I am banned coincidence I think not!! You don't deserve to be a mod you don't deserve to be a member you go away!

Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine. Somthing like that. Quit BSing and bann me already I know you want to! Block my IP too while you are at it! I can change my IP faster than you can change your socks! Go ahead try! You wanted a fight and I will give it to you! Better yet come down here and we'll settle this with a real fight. Come to JD I am very easy to find just ask about the short guy with messed up scars all over his fists. I'll be in X building 8:00am till noon Tuesday and Thursday, just let me know when you are coming so I can invite my club to watch me smash you.

You're an idiot

You're an idiot

:lol:

To top off all his other asshatery, he pulls the old pick a fight over the internet keyboard cowboy stuff.

Come to JD's eh? You do realize that, like, this forum is totally global and all over the world, and stuff?

dude, why does he tell you who he is so a moderater can just keep banning him?

dude, why does he tell you who he is so a moderater can just keep banning him?

Wondered the same myself :dunno:

It's cuz he HAS to get the last word in. I could sit here and bait him endlessly and he would just keep giving himself away. I even typed it out right here so he knows I'm just drawing him in, but just you watch, he'll post anyways :lol:

Wondered the same myself :dunno:

It's cuz he HAS to get the last word in. I could sit here and bait him endlessly and he would just keep giving himself away. I even typed it out right here so he knows I'm just drawing him in, but just you watch, he'll post anyways :lol:

No it is because I want you to know that there is absolutly nothing that you can do to get rid of me, I just like to rub in that fact. I have about a half dozen names in here already and I use different ones on different days, if you bann one I just log in under another, even if you block out the entire south east I would mirror my signal off a friends computer in Texas or Washington. And if you did block every IP that I have acess too than you would just be blocking out every student in JD and USM, because I am hopping computers in the lab that is why I have a different IP every day, cangrats two down 248 to go. Oh and if you could block them all this is my last semester here! HAHA Go ahead block all the other students too and I know for a fact that I am not the only one. I may not be able to get you fired but since you have picked this fight I will do everything I can to destroy everything you touch.

Darn mods banned me and now I have to use a new name, fortunetly I can change my name and IP in only about 45 seconds. Anyway this is Jared_80 and what is this carp that you are talking! The Evo runs a 13.0 if you want to argue that argue with motor trend! Yea if you put a stupid driver in it it probably will only run a 14 second 1/4 mile but the same is true for the Cobra too so lets skip the stupid numbers spin and stick with recorded numbers and reality. If you don't want to do that than you are too stupid to argue with anyway. For the seven thousand dollar difference between the Cobra and the Evo I could easly tweek the eve into the low 12s or high 11s. Don't beleve me just read what SCC did to their Evo!! As far as your fastest Evo crap I'll easly find you one that totaly smokes that Anyway I gatta go just keep telling yourself that the SVT will alyays be faster and maby you will convence yourself that it is true in spite of reality, or you can wake up and see that that four door four banger famaly car beats your expensive unpractical unrelieable musclecar in nearly every proformance test. Later

Jared you are getting your numbers from Motor Trend. Like the mod already noted, its a corrected #. They didnt run that number on the track. My quarter mile time is a 13.02 also when corrected. But at the track I run 13.4-13.6. I get my numbers from the TRACK, thats where the racing happens Jared, not in a magazine, or silly online hear-say.

7 thousand difference in Evo to Cobra? Where are you getting these numbers? The Cobra can be had for 30k even. Are you telling me Evos go for 23k?

And no, you couldnt compete with a Cobra dollar to dollar for anything in acceleration. For every dollar spent on that Evo, the Stang will pull away with the same $ invested. You know why? Displacement, among other things. The Evo gets great times because its AWD, so it gets a great launch, at the expense of transmision damage. Its not fast from a roll, Ive raced 1 from a 45mph roll, and it wasnt very fast bro. :2cents:

"where do you get this nonesence from????"

The track! Not maganizes fool! And Cobras run consistently much better times. Camaro Z28s run similar but faster times than the Evos. Like I said before, they avg 13.5-14.5 times.

I can tell you have never drove a fast v8. Your ideas about American cars are skewed at best, I suggest you get yourself a reality check before making yourself look even more uninformed. :banghead:

By the way, I got my Evo #s for the fastest Evo in the USA, on the EVO forums!

http://forums.evolutionm.net/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16

Mid 11s with nitrous & alot invested. Cobras are running those times with simple tire + boltons. With the fastest well below the 9s. and getting lower.

No it is because I want you to know that there is absolutly nothing that you can do to get rid of me, I just like to rub in that fact. I have about a half dozen names in here already and I use different ones on different days, if you bann one I just log in under another, even if you block out the entire south east I would mirror my signal off a friends computer in Texas or Washington. And if you did block every IP that I have acess too than you would just be blocking out every student in JD and USM, because I am hopping computers in the lab that is why I have a different IP every day, cangrats two down 248 to go. Oh and if you could block them all this is my last semester here! HAHA Go ahead block all the other students too and I know for a fact that I am not the only one. I may not be able to get you fired but since you have picked this fight I will do everything I can to destroy everything you touch.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah dude, you just run with that "destroy everything you touch" stuff. You're really making my life on here a living hell :uhoh: :lol:

And I'm proud you're such a cool guy you have so many names. Maybe if your had as many IQ points as names you wouldn't keep letting me know them so I can just ban them.

And now he will post again to "prove me wrong" again :lol:

P.S. Cobra ownz EVO in all acceleration tests

^
Word...

Oh who said anything about making you life into a living hell. I am just going to annoy you and make sure that no other students here can get on to this site ever again. All for you and your nonsence. What is that 4 down 246 to go I better hurry there is only a few weeks left quick bann me! HAHA You see the difference between me and you is that I let people see me for who I am, which granted most people do not like (I am very blunt) but that is not my problem, you on the other hand are a backstabing childish jerk who would bann someone for correcting him. Do any reserch into camber thrust latley? Yea I know your excuse, but at the time you were the ONLY person pissed off at me, at leased the only one who said anything, and the last three PMs I wrote you were debating the camber-rolling resistance thing. So say what ever you like we both know the truth about this. You know what I am not really a jerk in real life I am a very nice person I am doing this purley because of what you did to me, not that I mind being banned heck I had been expecting it for a long time now and I was going to just laugh it off and start over but you kicked me for correcting you and that pissed me off to no end and rightfully so. So when no student in South Mississippi can log on to your site you and you alone will be to blame. Later

Jesus, get a life. :uhoh:

make sure that no other students here can get on to this site ever again. All for you and your nonsence. What is that 4 down 246 to go

:confused: I haven't banned a single IP

Have you really been running to a new computer every time it says your user name is banned? :lol:

You really didn't think this through very well did you? :grinno:

If I was trying to ban you via IP, all I have to do is enter an asterisk as a wild card for the 4th part of the IP address, that would take care of every single computer on that network at once.

And I see you're still being clouded by the "I'm a martyr being banned for telling the truth" delusion :loser:

:confused: I haven't banned a single IP

Have you really been running to a new computer every time it says your user name is banned? :lol:

:eek2: :cwm27: :lol2: :iceslolan :rofl: :lol: :jump3: :D :grinyes: :grinno: :loser: :slap: :bananasmi :bananadie :jump3: :nono: :owned: :cya: :bloated: :banhim: (JK) just looking for a chance to use alot of smilies!!!

:confused: I haven't banned a single IP

Have you really been running to a new computer every time it says your user name is banned? :lol:

You really didn't think this through very well did you? :grinno:

If I was trying to ban you via IP, all I have to do is enter an asterisk as a wild card for the 4th part of the IP address, that would take care of every single computer on that network at once.

And I see you're still being clouded by the "I'm a martyr being banned for telling the truth" delusion :loser:


Oh really? Then how come the last computer that I wrote from before getting banned cannot log off the name that was banned and thus not enter the forum, no they are not banned from the site altogeather but they cannot join nor can they read any posts, that is banned in my book. Maby it is just a glitch in the system but these computers are denied acess, while others can log off of Jared_80 and log in under a different name. Anyway since you have a block all option go ahead and use it, block the whole network I just dare you. BTW if you want to clear up any doubt as to why you banned me post the last three leters that I wrote you. I cannot access them to prove my point but you can. Go ahead and show the people why I say you banned me for correcting you, or are you scared that they will see what I am talking about? Face it dude you banned me for proving you wrong, you were the ONLY mod pissed at me I had actualy cleared things up with Freakray and the others, it was all you, what a cheap shot. The only reason that I am constantly harassing this site is I want everyone here to know what a shalllow stuckup jerk you really are, you still have not admited that you were wrong in spite of all scientific evedence, that just goes to show what kind of person you really are.

Anyway since you have a block all option go ahead and use it, block the whole network I just dare you.

Sorry, but you're just not that annoying. I know you like to think you are, but nah.

BTW if you want to clear up any doubt as to why you banned me post the last three leters that I wrote you. I cannot access them to prove my point but you can. Go ahead and show the people why I say you banned me for correcting you

Did you not read the email I sent you? I completely proved your little banned for correcting me theory out of the water using the exact time and date stamps on the PMs. You were banned the very day that tibby guy posted all of your threads in one spot so I could see, which was 8 full days after you *think* you corrected me. Everyone here can see why you were banned, you're just plain an ass.

you were the ONLY mod pissed at me I had actualy cleared things up with Freakray and the others, it was all you

I still have the PM from Freakray which says, and I quote, "We've both warned him...I fully support banning". Your ban was posted in the moderators forum for others plus the admin to review, just like every ban on this site. Funny noone has stepped up to defend you, isn't it?

you still have not admited that you were wrong in spite of all scientific evedence

What scientific evidence? As I told you in the email, you never showed any evidence that rolling resistance from camber was MORE than rolling resistance from a full contact patch. Therefore you have not proven anything. Now good day Mr. "racers use stiffer blowoff valves to raise boost".

This is the stupidest most pointless thread I've ever seen. Nothing but people trying to force their opinions and preferences on other people. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I prefer imports. Why? Because they last longer. Proof? My dad's Ford Taurus was ready for the junkyard at 100K, and his Camry is at 150K and still going very strong. I don't care if your truck lasted longer than your Toyota or whatever. In my experience, Japanese cars are safer, cheaper, and more reliable.

This thread needs to die - and never come back.

"There really is no point to this."

The WRX is a rally car, the EVO was made to combat it. The EVO is a rally car.
Strait line performance is what muscle cars are all about. Torque rules on the street.

Ford was dumb by putting a roots blower on the cobra. Just for the sake of argument, just boost the Cobra with 8 PSI of intercooled turbo and it would make twice the HP that roots will.
If I ever by a Mustang, it sure won't be a cobra. It will be a GT, and the I'll put a intercooled centrifical SC on it and make 500 HP easy.


Why would you not? The cobra is intercooled... it is a water to air intercooler. All you need is a pully and a chip and you are knocking on the door of 500 HP. Call ford stupid or whatever you want, but that cobra is sick. Sorry to bring this back up but, that car is a mean SOB and I get sick of people bashing it when they have no clue what they are talking about.

its not like muscle cars can turn, atleast imports can do more than go in a striaght line, what kind of racing is a strait line, think about it, its worse than nascar, atleast nascar does left turns, and for everyone that thinks an import cant do shit on the track they're wrong, you obviously have been beatin too many times and are just pissed off at the fact that you know you can get beatin bye imports, im not saying that musclecars cant race either they can drag race, but please, thats all and thats some sad shit, if you want real racing i would love to see you drive your shit-ass camaro down a mountain road and off a cliff, call me when it happens it would be a kodak moment.

bottom line is domestics cant do shit on a circuit, all they can do is drag, and drag racing is some boring shit.

its not like muscle cars can turn, atleast imports can do more than go in a striaght line, what kind of racing is a strait line, think about it, its worse than nascar, atleast nascar does left turns, and for everyone that thinks an import cant do shit on the track they're wrong, you obviously have been beatin too many times and are just pissed off at the fact that you know you can get beatin bye imports, im not saying that musclecars cant race either they can drag race, but please, thats all and thats some sad shit, if you want real racing i would love to see you drive your shit-ass camaro down a mountain road and off a cliff, call me when it happens it would be a kodak moment.

bottom line is domestics cant do shit on a circuit, all they can do is drag, and drag racing is some boring shit.


have you seen the grand touring events with the real time racing integras and now they are using rsxs. lil four banger front wheel drive is murdering the likes of stands and vettes and vipers.

Jesus, get a life. :uhoh:


Quoted for ultimate relevance.

have you seen the grand touring events with the real time racing integras and now they are using rsxs. lil four banger front wheel drive is murdering the likes of stands and vettes and vipers.

Have you ever seen those races? :eek7: :uhoh:

1st of all an Integra or RSX does not even race in the same class as Vettes and Vipers. The only Japanese cars you normally see classed with Vettes and Vipers are RX7s and Skylines, and they both usually end up getting owned by the domestic cars. The Vettes and Vipers are like in a whole nother league from the rest of the cars.

You kids who think domestics can't corner are only showing how much you really don't know.

BTW the realtime race team uses Sentra Spec-V's now not RSX's.

have you seen the grand touring events with the real time racing integras and now they are using rsxs. lil four banger front wheel drive is murdering the likes of stands and vettes and vipers.

The Viper has one the championship every year since it's been in it

its not like muscle cars can turn, atleast imports can do more than go in a striaght line, what kind of racing is a strait line, think about it, its worse than nascar, atleast nascar does left turns, and for everyone that thinks an import cant do shit on the track they're wrong, you obviously have been beatin too many times and are just pissed off at the fact that you know you can get beatin bye imports, im not saying that musclecars cant race either they can drag race, but please, thats all and thats some sad shit, if you want real racing i would love to see you drive your shit-ass camaro down a mountain road and off a cliff, call me when it happens it would be a kodak moment.

bottom line is domestics cant do shit on a circuit, all they can do is drag, and drag racing is some boring shit.

You have no god damn idea what you are talking about. I was on break at work today and i was flipping through an old Car and Driver magazine. The 2002 Z06 outperformed the Porche 911 and the Acura NSX in every category they tested, yes that includes the 700 ft slalom and road courses; Steve Millen(i dont expect you to know who this is) even said he would rather have the Z06 in his garage than any of those. And you know what the Vette even got better highway gas mileage than the other two. Comon man at least research something before you make a hardassed biased opinion

Oh yeah, why dont you tell John Force that drag racing is stupid and boring. Or try to tell people like me who go to the NHRA drag races in Chicago and Indianapolis each year that they suck. Exilerating to me is watching a car scoot down the 1/4 mile in 3.345 seconds.

me too

i just dont really see whats so great about it, its a striaght line, sure they have the launch and it looks cool ands i luv the sound of it, but its over in a couple seconds

Drag racing is the worlds best spectator sport. Their is a half mile of front row seats. Besides, how often do you see cars reaching speeds in excess of 300mph in other sports?

go see an f-1 event if you want cars at those speeds, maybe not 300 but 200 easily, come to think of it wut are you talking about i've never even been to a drag event where anyone reached 300mph?

[QUOTE=Z28Josh]The Viper has one the championship every year since it's been in it


true but there having 6 more cylinders it should never lose but it has lost event races................. futher more with 6 more cylinder it should never be challenged.

You have no god damn idea what you are talking about. I was on break at work today and i was flipping through an old Car and Driver magazine. The 2002 Z06 outperformed the Porche 911 and the Acura NSX in every category they tested, yes that includes the 700 ft slalom and road courses; Steve Millen(i dont expect you to know who this is) even said he would rather have the Z06 in his garage than any of those. And you know what the Vette even got better highway gas mileage than the other two. Comon man at least research something before you make a hardassed biased opinion



steve millen? isnt he the founder of the company Stillen? and sure the z06 is a beast i cant deny that but one still cost more then ill ever make in one year w/o over time. and will never be able to afford it. but the evo is something i could reach. and i wont be able to find a cheaper car that would perform in as many areas as it is good at. and if i were talking in the area of a used car it would be a 98 eclipse gsx. ok fine america can make a fast car that handles well. but in order to get a car that can handle like a rx-8 or something of that nature i'd have to speed far more money. end of my statement.

go see an f-1 event if you want cars at those speeds, maybe not 300 but 200 easily, come to think of it wut are you talking about i've never even been to a drag event where anyone reached 300mph?


agreed

[QUOTE=Z28Josh]The Viper has one the championship every year since it's been in it


true but there having 6 more cylinders it should never lose but it has lost event races................. futher more with 6 more cylinder it should never be challenged.


OMG, just because it has 6 more cylinders means NOTHING. You can make a 4 cylinder car faster than a viper no problem. Takes a lot of $$$, but then again the viper does cost a good chunk of change, what like 80K I think?

And I'm sure he's not just talking about the viper winning over 4 cylinders, it's also combating the vette.

OMG, just because it has 6 more cylinders means NOTHING. You can make a 4 cylinder car faster than a viper no problem. Takes a lot of $$$, but then again the viper does cost a good chunk of change, what like 80K I think?

And I'm sure he's not just talking about the viper winning over 4 cylinders, it's also combating the vette.


thats for agreeing my point if there is no replace for displacement then how can an integra win some event races. in grand touring you have a point system depending on what postion you finish in you get points. who ever has the most point after something like 6 races. the integra has taking first. but i think he was right when he sad that the viper has won the championship. i got one, the best replacement for displacement is money.

the best replacement for displacement is money.

I've been saying that since I joined this forum...in a bunch of threads where people say ''no replacement for displacement'' and I say money is the replacement for displacement.

go see an f-1 event if you want cars at those speeds, maybe not 300 but 200 easily, come to think of it wut are you talking about i've never even been to a drag event where anyone reached 300mph?

F-1 is better on TV IMHO because at the event you can only see a small part of the race. Drag racing is boring on TV, the roar of the engines does not come through. 300mph is common for Top Fuel and Funny Cars. I think the record is around 325mph in 4.7 seconds. Its also pretty neat to see a car blow an engine after one second, coast to the finish line and still run a 12.7 at 118mph. Those cars do 0-100 in 0.7 seconds!

Mikegee,
I understand what your saying, but a Mustang or a Camaro will handle pretty well with the right aftermarket parts. In fact, an IRS from a modern mustang will fit older mustangs all the way back to the Fox Bodies of the 80's. Sure these cars are better for straight line acceleration, but they are not bad on the corners if they are built for it. They make really quick autocross cars if their are some straightaways.

i wasn't really taslkin about funny cars i thought we were talking about cars that were, like street legal or close or somethin like that

but in order to get a car that can handle like a rx-8 or something of that nature i'd have to speed far more money. end of my statement.

not quite if Ford would want a car that cost the same as an RX-8, and handled like that theyd just have to rebadge it!!!!!!! i dont understand the RX-8 NOT HORSE POWER! why could they not turbo it or something!!!

not quite if Ford would want a car that cost the same as an RX-8, and handled like that theyd just have to rebadge it!!!!!!! i dont understand the RX-8 NOT HORSE POWER! why could they not turbo it or something!!!


huh?

*sigh* this thread should die :disappoin

huh?

Ford owns mazda, if they would want a car like the RX 8 all theyd have to do to get it is to rebadge one as a ford.

DIE THREAD DIE :banghead:

Ford owns mazda, if they would want a car like the RX 8 all theyd have to do to get it is to rebadge one as a ford.


ok?

ok?

ok. :banghead: :cya:

ok. :banghead: :cya:


you must like ford?

well i do, but never mind. that not why i...oh whatever.

i agree this thread should be killed, its been going on for how long, i think it was like my first post on one of the pages, if there is a mod out there maybe close this thread or somethin, its just taking apart this forum wen the forum is just supposed to bring automotive enthusiests together

This thread is closed.