I am trying to find out who owns all the Mclaren F1s.
Here's what I have sofar.

Sultan of brunai.........8 Mclaren F1s(thats not a typo)
Ralph Laren...............2 Mclaren F1s
Jay Leno..................1 Mclaren F1
Wycliff Jean..............1 Mclaren F1
liam Howlett..............1 Mclaren F1
Elton John.................1 Mclaren F1
Dan Kennedy.............1 Mclaren F1

Does anyone know anymore

browse the board, you'll find tons of info

I was planning on doing a new "Locations of McLaren's in America" list soon so that I can keep it updated. For the most part, we have a lot of the old mysteries ironed out. I still believe there are 2 or 3 cars here that are not officially accounted for or the owner's info isn't available yet. It's only a matter of time though until someone comes up with it. With the advent of the internet, hiding a McLaren F1 is becoming more and more difficult. ;)

Incidentally, 'Wyclef' and 'Brunei' are spelled wrong on your list.

>8^)
ER

Upes eye diddent ckek tha sspallin dat wll. LOL

I can't wait for that list to come out. I've been
doing some studing on the board and other places
for information and it seems that Dan Kennedy has
or is in the process of selling his beautiful F1.

Dan is selling is his and has been for several months. I think he might be looking to recoup too much of his investment in the car and that could be why no one has snatched it up. The same is true with nearly every customized car though - if it's done to one owner's specific tastes, it can be quite difficult to find someone else with similar tastes. You hardly ever get back any extra money your pour into a car when you modify it. Seeing as how the modifications to Dan's F1 aren't enhancing the performance in any way, I'm not sure there are too many people who would be interested in an F1 that would care to have them. I know I wouldn't need a Navigation unit in my F1 or an MP3 player. I'd rather have an unmolested example if I could get my hands on one.

One side note - the website for Dan's car appears to be gone :confused: - www.mclarenforsale.com (http://www.mclarenforsale.com) - isn't coming up for me right now. Maybe the host is just having problems, or maybe Dan is tired of paying for the bandwidth so that us supercar dreamers can stare at his car all day long. :lol2:

>8^)
ER

Peloton your right - the site is down!!! :eek: Whenever I go there, it says this:

This site requires JavaScript. If you are not redirected to a new page,
please enable JavaScript in your browser and refresh this page.

And redirects me to "Eufora, The Income Opportunity Credit Card". Kennedys F1 either sold or he's trying a different method of selling it.

or his server is down? just cause the site isn't there doesn't mean that he sold it or anything, don't jump to conclusions so quickly

Peloton25, When you buy a used Mclaren F1 it's not
the same as when you buy a used Handa Accord. When
you purchase a used Mclaren F1 it is sent back to the
factory for a complete overhaul and then it's refitted to
your own body and costumized the way you want it to
be. So essentualy you're getting a brand spankin new
car.

Yes and no. McLaren will do as much or as little as you want them to. Certainly you can have the interior retrimmed and the exterior repainted and have everything cleaned with a toothbrush as well as install the latest gizmos. And you can have a complete engine rebuild and replace the clutch. But you can also just get a light inspection done and drive away.

It's all up to how fussy the buyer is, and how much lighter they want their pockets to feel--after already spending a fair chunk on the purchase...

:iagree:

MclarenF1LM - Not every car goes back to the factory at the time of purchase. It is certainly an option, but it isn't always the case. The ones that do don't always receive a complete overhaul as you suggest. It's all dependant on what the new owner wants.

>8^)
ER

May I also add my concurrence to previous statements by TVR and Peloton. It does depend heavily on the wishes of the new owner or the previous depending on how the sale is orchestrated, as any necessary repairs or upgrades may the the negotiated responsibility of the seller. Many cars require the update of the fuel cells. Many cars are left without this maintenance for many years, if ever done at all. This service is most likely done by the factory, but it can be done by the certified Service Centers around the world. More often then not, the car is sent to the factory for the work. As has been said, that is not a standard or automatic thing upon new ownership. It must be commissioned and paid for by the new owner unless negotiated otherwise by the requirements of the deal between buyer and seller. McLaren most certainly will not grant the work free of charge. Quite the opposite.

I new that they wouldn't give it for free but my
point was that you needn't worry about getting some-
one elses unspirited custom Mclaren.


I have two more to add to the list. The first is Herb
Chambers, and the second is owned by the owner of turner motorsports(I don't know what his name is though).



Sultan of brunai.........8 Mclaren F1s(thats not a typo)
Ralph Laren...............2 Mclaren F1s
Jay Leno..................1 Mclaren F1
Wycliff Jean..............1 Mclaren F1
liam Howlett..............1 Mclaren F1
Elton John.................1 Mclaren F1
Dan Kennedy.............1 Mclaren F1
Herb Chambers..........1 Mclaren F1
Owner of TM.............1 Mclaren F1(posably 2)

PS. does any one know if Gordon Marry owns an F1. Not that
I have any evidence to suggest it but, I thought that it was
a logical possability

Frank Selldorff doesn't own Turner Motorsports. He does own a black F1 road car that's here in the USA (#007), an LM which is also here(LM3), and apparently a third McLaren - a silver F1 road car (#068) which I have listed in a 'location unknown' status. That last car could be here awaiting certification, and it could also still be in England as some have speculated.

BTW: AFAIK Will Turner is the owner of Turner Motorsports. drewwtms can correct that statement if its not true.

>8^)
ER

whos liam Howlett? is that the guy from oasis? i also need proof he and elton own a car, i have no doubts that elton does (he has a nice collection) i would just like to see a pic to be certain. Anyone have any of either of these 2 cars?

Yeah - that is who Liam is. Other things that I have read state that he now lives in Chris Dawes old house. Kind of ironic I guess...

>8^)
ER

humm. Can u guarentee he owns a mac and the same with elton?

I'd say I'm 90% positive Liam is a McLaren F1 owner. I don't know about Elton though. That sounds more like speculation to me. Sure he's a collector of cars, but I'd never really seen any accurate info to suggest he's a McLaren F1 owner. It's the same with Bill Gates - I've seen a lot of reports of him owning one or multiple McLaren F1's when in reality I don't believe he's ever been an owner.

>8^)
ER

why do u think Liam has one?

This report is evidence enough for me - you'll have to cut&paste:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=4&q=http://members.madasafish.com/~smbu/pn/news/2000/april/16/&e=7421

There are others with similar info that can be found around the web. Also, he's not with Oasis, but Prodigy. I knew it was one of those.

>8^)
ER

I live in Britain and had no idea that Liam had one. He has the producing and song writing credits though so he probably can afford one. The confusion over Oasis and Prodigy is because he is married to one of the Appleton sisters, formely of All Saints (ever heard of them, over there?), the other appleton sister is married to Liam Gallagher, frontman of Oasis. I'll try and find out exactly which car he has or had.

I would be very surprised if Liam Gallagher had a McLaren. If he did it would have been in the tabloids in the UK. I believe Elton John had a XJ220 Jag. I haven't heard anything about him owning a McLaren F1. Nick Mason of Pink Floyd fame has a GTR along with lots of other great cars. Another rock star into cars in a big way is Jay Kay (Jamiroquai) who has an Enzo.

Elton sold his XJ220, it was auctioned off with some of his other cars, my mom showed me an article about in in hello/ok (one of those womens mags) a while ago

Re-reading my post i make it sound as though Liam Gallagher has an F1, which he dosn't. I meant that i'd check to find out which F1 Liam Howlett has. So far i haven't found anything apart froma few stories confirming that he has or has had an F1.

I bet XOTech is aware of some of the more 'celebrity' F1 owners. Now that he's back in action, hopefully he'll be willing to drop some names. I'd be interested in knowing if Eric Clapton is truly an F1 owner as I've heard that he purchased George Harrison's F1. In fact, I think gerd may have originally posted that info here. Not certain if it was fact or rumor at the time.

>8^)
ER

Seems Eric Clapton has got a habit of taking on Harrison's second hand goods :iceslolan

Wow, thanks for all the info guys, keep it coming. I will post
the updated version of the list later after I chack out all the
info for authenticity.

i'll give u my list in a bit, its loooong, altho i'm sure pelotons is bigger ;)

That would be great mini magic. Pretty soon no one
will have a hidden Mclaren, I hope.

I'm certain my list isn't any longer than yours. Whenever I dig up new info I share it here. So, if you've been taking good notes, then you're just as wise as me. :iceslolan

>8^)
ER

oh cool, thanks

Eric Clapton does indeed have Harrison's McLaren. That is quite certain.

Do you know if it's still that beautiful shade of Aubergine?

>8^)
ER

I'm still processing the data for the list. I'm adding a
few more columns for chassis number, color, location,
model and, status.

Just out of curiosity, I read that Christopher Dawes
crashed his F1, I found this picture and was wondering if
it is his crashed F1. I figured that it might be because
in his crash the car split in half and burst into flames; it
looks like all that stuff happend to this car.
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/mclaren/mclaren_040202_003.jpg

I don't see any evidence of fire in this pic...looks more like a rear end collision. The McLaren F1's muffler is designed to absorb impact and act as the rear "bumper" and it looks like it did the job admirably.

i don't think thats his car. That pic is in driving ambition. I'll try to find it and tell you what it says about it.

The picture above is not the aftermath of the Chris Dawes crash. That car was indeed burned. So badly, that it was not immediately recognizable aside from the profound damage to the car from hitting the tree. The engine was completely severed from the car and many hundreds of feet away from the bulk of the other parts.

The car in the above picture was undergoing either testing or a promotional session. The driver lost control and backed it into the wall at nearly 200mph. The car survived very well and was rebuilt. The occupants survived without injury. Not so in the Dawes crash. I am not certain of the chassis number of the above car. I do have further information about this very car, but it is not immediately available without going through my volumes of data. I will see what I can turn up.

Rowan Atkinson has one doesn't he??

yes, chassis #061

Hey guys sorry for the long time without any posts, I've been
real buissy lately and have also been setting up my new computer.
I'll get the updated list posted as soon as I network the new computer
with the old one.

i'm still getting mine together

Finaly, heres the updated list. You'll have to copy and
paste it into Notepad to get the colums allined proporly,
does anyone know how to correct this problem.


Owner=====================NUM OWND===========================Location=========Mo del=============================================== ==Status=================================Chassis NUM===========Color

Sultan of Brunei..........8 Mclaren F1s......................Brunei...........LM,95 Gulf GTR,Road Car(not sure about the other 5)...unkown.................................N/A...................N/A
Ralph Laren...............2 Mclaren F1s......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................s till owned by him.....................N/A...................N/A
Jay Leno..................1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................s till owned by him.....................N/A...................silver
Wyclef Jean...............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................u nkown.................................N/A...................N/A
liam Howlett..............1 Mclaren F1.......................u.s.a............Road Car..............................................u nkown.................................N/A...................silver
Elton John................1 Mclaren F1........... ...........U.K..............N/A................................................. ..speculation............................N/A...................N/A
Dan Kennedy...............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................f or sale...............................#037........... .......orange
Herb Chambers.............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................s till owned by him.....................N/A...................silver
Frank Selldorff...........3 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road car,LM...........................................s till owned by him.....................#007,#LM03,#068.......blac k/Orange
Christopher Dawes.........1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................h e crashed it and was killed...........N/A...................N/A(Charcoal LOL)
Nick Mason................1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............GTR..... ..............................................I'm not totaly convinced he owns it....N/A...................N/A
Eric Clapton..............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.K..............Road Car..............................................U nkown.................................N/A...................N/A
Rowan Atkinson............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................U nkown.................................061......... ..........Dark Burgundy

Owner=====================NUM OWND===========================Location=========Mo del=============================================== ==Status=================================Chassis NUM===========Color

Sultan of Brunei..........8 Mclaren F1s......................Brunei...........LM,95 Gulf GTR,Road Car(not sure about the other 5)...unkown.................................N/A...................N/A
Ralph Laren...............2 Mclaren F1s......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................s till owned by him.....................N/A...................N/A
Jay Leno..................1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................s till owned by him.....................N/A...................silver
Wyclef Jean...............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................u nkown.................................N/A...................N/A
liam Howlett..............1 Mclaren F1.......................u.s.a............Road Car..............................................u nkown.................................N/A...................silver
Elton John................1 Mclaren F1........... ...........U.K..............N/A................................................. ..speculation............................N/A...................N/A
Dan Kennedy...............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................f or sale...............................#037........... .......orange
Herb Chambers.............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................s till owned by him.....................N/A...................silver
Frank Selldorff...........3 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road car,LM...........................................s till owned by him.....................#007,#LM03,#068.......blac k/Orange
Christopher Dawes.........1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................h e crashed it and was killed...........N/A...................N/A(Charcoal LOL)
Nick Mason................1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............GTR..... ..............................................I'm not totaly convinced he owns it....N/A...................N/A
Eric Clapton..............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.K..............Road Car..............................................U nkown.................................N/A...................N/A
Rowan Atkinson............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................U nkown.................................061......... ..........Dark Burgundy


use code tags on it :)

I thought Nick Masons, Rowan Atkinsons and Liam Howletts F1s were all in the UK. And isn't DK's car 038?

RicH_24, thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.


I thought Nick Masons, Rowan Atkinsons and Liam Howletts F1s were all in the UK. And isn't DK's car 038?

Thanks for the info, TcarR, I will look into it and if
it's true I will make the changes ASAP.

All of the above is most certainly true. Also, Nick Mason definitely owns the '96 F1 GTR #10R - no doubt about that.

>8^)
ER

and it's blood red solid

I'm I figured that it might be because
in his crash the car split in half


I got the impression from reading some reports that the car was split in half length ways but i think i guessed wrong.

I've been here before but I very much doubt Elton John has or had a Mclaren. Searching google turns up nothing. He did have a XJ220 that can be found on google. Chris Dawes car was in the UK. One of Frank's cars is also in the UK.

Yeah I would take Elton John off the list as well. The speculation that he has one, or even ever owned one, is quite similar to the stories I've read about Bill Gates owning two F1s. None of that has ever proven to be true.

>8^)
ER

that list is very incomplete

Heres an update to the list. I've taken Elton John off and
made other revisions. I have a couple of other people to add
to the list later after I get resonable proof that they own an f1.

(Owner=====================NUM OWND===========================Location=========Mo del=============================================== ==Status=================================Chassis NUM===========Color

Sultan of Brunei..........8 Mclaren F1s......................Brunei...........LM,95 Gulf GTR,Road Car(not sure about the other 5)...unkown.................................N/A...................N/A
Ralph Laren...............2 Mclaren F1s......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................s till owned by him.....................N/A...................N/A
Jay Leno..................1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................s till owned by him.....................N/A...................silver
Wyclef Jean...............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................u nkown.................................N/A...................N/A
liam Howlett..............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.K..............Road Car..............................................u nkown.................................N/A...................silver
Dan Kennedy...............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................f or sale...............................#037........... .......orange
Herb Chambers.............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................s till owned by him.....................N/A...................silver
Frank Selldorff...........3 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road car,LM...........................................s till owned by him.....................#007,#LM03,#068.......blac k/Orange
Christopher Dawes.........1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................h e crashed it and was killed...........N/A...................N/A(Charcoal LOL)
Nick Mason................1 Mclaren F1.......................U.K..............96 GTR............................................... .still owned by him.....................#10R..................N/A
Eric Clapton..............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.K..............Road Car..............................................U nkown.................................N/A...................N/A
Rowan Atkinson............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.K..............Road Car..............................................U nkown.................................061......... ..........Dark Burgundy
Elon Musk.................1 Mclaren F1(maybe a 2nd)..........U.S.A............N/A................................................. ..He still ownes one of them.............N/A...................N/A
Gerd Petrik...............1 Mclaren F1.......................U.S.A............Road Car..............................................s ome uncertainty surounds this car.....N/A...................N/A)

PS. mini magic, I know that the list is incomplete and has some
errors in it but, it's a work in progress and so it's going to get better.

Dont forget good old Laurence Strohl, Dean Wills and Larry Blair

-Mike :smokin:

jim clark - chassis #024, US
peter manelis - chassis #037, US
clifford meltzer - chassis #028, US

theres a start

thanks for the entries guys. I'll post the list with them
in it later; I'm currently reorganizing it in a more logical manner

didn't Rowan Atkinson crash his in the UK? not written off though but i think the traffic chopper filmed it.

this is as good as a place as any.....

i was talking to a friend in my class and he said that his grandfather is friends with a guy who lives in Ojai CA (just south of santa barbara). he said the guy owns 2 mclarens, amoung many other cars. he said that he made all his money photographing album covers.

the conversation moved on, so i didnt get a chance to ask the guys name (or call his bluff) but i thought id ask just to double check ....

so, 2 McLarens in Ojai California?

Maybe they are old CAN-AM cars, but I just don't see any way that they would be F1s. :screwy:

>8^)
ER

The 'Sultan of Brunei' has name and it's Haji Hassanal Bolkiah.

The 'Sultan of Brunei' has name and it's Haji Hassanal Bolkiah.
Not many people recognize him by that title and even less will probably remember it. The "Sultan of Brunei" demands immediate recognition since that is the name most people know him by.

Personally, I prefer my own short (and completely ironic, I swear) abbreviation of the more famous name "SOB." :iceslolan

The 'Sultan of Brunei' has name and it's Haji Hassanal Bolkiah.

Oh ya, "Haji Hassanal Bolkiah" is much easier to say than "Sultan of Brunei." :lol:

Since we're getting all specific anyway, we are not even technically talking about the Sultan himself. The automobile collection is more of an endeavor carried out by the Sultan's younger brother Prince Jefri and his eldest son Prince Haakem.

just talked to the guy again in my class, he said they are old racing ones. he apparenetly has a large collection of vintage cars and bikes

Yes Gordan Murray owns one (its silver)
The Sultan doesnt own 8
As in previous posts the Princes are 'more' into to cars then him and he gave one of his LM's to his daughter for her 21st birthday.
Also the Genisis manager has one.
Obviously Rons LM (XP1) XP5 is owned by Mclaren, as is the longtail roadcar prototype, as is the Uno clinic Le mans winner (infact Mclaren own one of each car made, ie road car, gt, GTR, LM etc

Hello,

The Sultan doesnt own 8
As in previous posts the Princes are 'more' into to cars then him and he gave one of his LM's to his daughter for her 21st birthday.


Humm, it is very interesting, how do you know that ?
Can you have pics of these LMs please ?

Ciao
Phil

I have absolutly no pics, and no way of getting them, im just very well informed

Hello,

Can you have pics of these LMs please ?

Ciao
Phil

Every time this subject has come up, you have asked that. I don't think we will see any for a long time

What about dealerships who have them??

Dealerships? there shouldnt be any F1's sat in delerships, there was the park lane one, but that has been swapped for another. And that will be gone soonish anyway.

I saw 1 in dupont or 2 I think black and silver for sale they were @ a dealership on the sun rise strip aka florida.

Damn, do you know what they were asking?

Damn, do you know what they were asking?

Nah but you want to c amazing supercars Go there,theres at least 20 different exoitic car dealerships.

Yeah I would take Elton John off the list as well. None of that has ever proven to be true.

>8^)
ER

When I went to cali Last week I saw elton johns house when I saw the house I jus stared in aw I would believe it cali has perfect conditions for the f1 2. The other person who im not gonna say he has 1 but I would most definetly believe he has if speculation occured is nicholas Cage. He is a big car collector. Tim allen owns an S7 hehe.

Im planning a trip in January, so maybe I will.
Thanks

No prob

Btw it says top secret on ur occupation do u work for the company top secret ?? If so thats sweet. If you have no Idea its ok alot of people dont know about that car company. heres some of there cars ~
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:JabZUWMrTPMJ:roubal.ic.cz/images/Topsecret/03.JPG (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://roubal.ic.cz/images/Topsecret/03.JPG&imgrefurl=http://roubal.ic.cz/top.htm&h=336&w=495&sz=30&tbnid=JabZUWMrTPMJ:&tbnh=86&tbnw=126&start=7&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtop%2Bsecret%2Bsupra%26hl%3Den%26lr%3 D%26ie%3DUTF-8)http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:1fe_DWJoAggJ:www.sportcompact.ca/coverage/img/tas/106_0645.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sportcompact.ca/coverage/img/tas/106_0645.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php%3Fs%3D%26goto%3Dlastpost%26threadid %3D39997&h=332&w=500&sz=39&tbnid=1fe_DWJoAggJ:&tbnh=84&tbnw=126&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtop%2Bsecret%2B350z%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D %26ie%3DUTF-8)[img]

Ha ha, I f**king wish!
No its just if my 'employers' knew I wasnt talking about stuff like this then id be fired. (had to sign loads of documents before they employed me saying I wouldnt do this)
And yeah I know Who top secret are, I feel they are most famous for the 'gold' supra.

But they went to the salt flats witht a car (I think in 2000) and creamed all the Yanks arses in this highly tuned (1000bhp+) 6cylinder turbo supra. The americans wouldnt belive it was only a 6cylinder. (they were all like but my v10 doesnt go like that blah blah)

Ha ha, I f**king wish!
No its just if my 'employers' knew I wasnt talking about stuff like this then id be fired. (had to sign loads of documents before they employed me saying I wouldnt do this)
And yeah I know Who top secret are, I feel they are most famous for the 'gold' supra.

But they went to the salt flats witht a car (I think in 2000) and creamed all the Yanks arses in this highly tuned (1000bhp+) 6cylinder turbo supra. The americans wouldnt belive it was only a 6cylinder. (they were all like but my v10 doesnt go like that blah blah)

lol yea figures but we all know who is the king of supras though actaull of them. JUN & veilside I cant figure out which 1.

I though veilside where just styling and got 'other' companies to do the engines?
But JUN are amazing, some the advanments they have made and there way off thinking is truly brilliant

Also back to the registry, there is one F1 that had to be crushed

Also back to the registry, there is one F1 that had to be crushed

why did it have to be crushed I seriously doubt that it would be exported or sold be for it got crushed.

No it was in America, the 'owner' had tax issues so the car was taken and crushed as part of that by a company called Universal salvage

No it was in America, the 'owner' had tax issues so the car was taken and crushed as part of that by a company called Universal salvage

DamN!! That sux. I have a sweet pic of the jun and all the other supras together il pm it.

No it was in America, the 'owner' had tax issues so the car was taken and crushed as part of that by a company called Universal salvageNow you're going a bit too far with this. Cars that are taken away in cases like this (i.e. repossession) aren't crushed...they're auctioned off to try to recoup some of the money.

What's there to salvage from a CARBON FIBER chassis and body anyway?

EDIT: the only "Universal Salvage" I can find is in England anyway, not America.
http://www.salvage-auctions.co.uk/

Also back to the registry, there is one F1 that had to be crushed

If you are talking about #069 which was hear in the USA illegally, that car was never crushed. :grinno:

>8^)
ER

No if I was, I would ahev said there was once a car in the USA illegally that was never crushed. (Probably would have been pointless posting it though)

Im trying to get the info now about it.

I heard a few months ago its still sitting in customs

Gives me Ideas :iceslolan:grinno::iceslolan...

My cousin works in customs.

I heard a few months ago its still sitting in customs
man i knew they had an enzo and diablo, but also a mclaren!? wow!

I just found this gem in Los Gatos,CA this weekend. I'll be honest, I love McLarens but I'm not a fanatic so I don't know much about this one. I asked the guy at the shop about where he got it and he said it was formerly owned and raced by Mario Andretti (check the sig on the sun visor).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/acrid850/Red%20McF1/b5c0e0ce.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v336/acrid850/Red%20McF1/

That is Cliff Meltzer's car.

The signature isn't legible.

Where would Mario Andretti have raced a *stock* McLaren F1? And if I'm Mario Andretti, why would I sign my own car?

Greg A

Thats Andtretti's sig alright!! He always does that with the 2 loops for the T's. Thanks for the pics!! Good job :thumbsup:

He'd sign it if he didn't own the car any more....which I believe is the case here. The racing part I don't know, thats what the mechanic there told me, and It's all I have to go off of.

There were quite a few nice cars there. It's a body shop, but the only car the looked like they were working on was a Z8. Otherwise there was a Gallardo, a Vanquish, an F50, an F40, and a couple other Ferraries (how do you pluralize Ferrari anyway?). The guy that tipped me on the shop said there was an Enzo, but I didn't see it. There is a chance its there, but I don't know the shape of an Enzo under a cover and was far too awestruck finding a McLaren.

Very interesting info - I wouldn't think Andretti would want to own a McLaren after he had such unkind words for the car when he reviewed it in Road&Track. I'm now very curious to hear the entire history of this car. I'm hesitant to believe that Andretti owned it, but there is some credible evidence there. Prior to that car coming to the USA it was located in Japan. I wonder how long Mario owned the car...?

Anyway, thanks for the info and the pictures. Congrats on getting to see the car! :bigthumb:

>8^)
ER

Thats messed up I didnt even kno about that I did a 10 page full print bio/essay on him this year. :wtf: GOOD FIND THOUGH!!

BTW ~ is that a gallardo in the back?

BTW ~ is that a gallardo in the back?

Do we need to get mini magic to teach you how to edit posts? :screwy: :grinno: :loser:

>8^)
ER

Yep...that’s the Gallardo in the back. Its funny, I just got a Digital Camera and I thought I'd go test it on some nice cars. So I go to Silicon Valley Auto Group and find that have an F40 and just got the Elise in. So nice. I wander the lot a little and joke with a salesman about buying a Gallardo (I'm 19 so he could tell I can't actually afford it). I ask him a few questions about the F40 and start talking about Ferrari super cars and he mentions to me a shop where someone keeps their collection. He mentioned an F50 and an Enzo, but as soon as he said McLaren, I knew I had to find it. He gave me some rough directions and before I new it, I was in a small shop (you see about half of it in that pic) with a couple million dollars worth of cars in it. What a great way to test out a new camera (BTW, the image quality is poor due to free image hosting, not the camera).

So in one day in a 5 mile radius I found two F40s, an F50, a McLaren F1, two Gallardos, a Murciélago, two Elises, and handfull of unlimited production Ferraries and Aston Martins.

This weekend, well it's Monterey Auto Weekend. Historic races, Concorso Italiano, and Pebble Beach Concours. I can't wait! :D

Hello,

thanks a lot acrid850 to share these pics with us.
This red one is beautiful !

The next time, can you look at the chassis numer near the gearstick please ?

Ciao
Phil

dude, we know the chassis #

Wow, you are so lucky. I went there once, but it was closed. All I got was a picture of the outside. :disappoin

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/151977Meltzer_s.jpg

When you went, was the garage already open, or did you have to knock?

Here's the complete list of F1 chassis, info from www.qv500.com .


F1 Prototype Chassis Index


XP1 Unpainted, destroyed while testing in Namibia
XP2 Unpainted, the MIRA crash test car
XP3 Silver, McLaren promotional car
XP4 Bright Electric Blue, McLaren promotional car
XP5 Dark Metallic Green, McLaren promotion car, the 240mph record car


F1 Chassis Index


001 1994, 3rd car built, Magnesium Silver
002 1993, 1st car built, Dorchester Grey
003 1994, 2nd car built, Carbon
004 1994, 4th car built, Grand Prix Red
005 1994, 5th car built, Jet Black
006 1994, 6th car built, Magnesium Silver
007 1994, 7th car built, Jet Black
008 1994, 9th car built, Cobalt Blue
009 1994, 8th car built, Magnesium Silver
010 1994, 10th car built, Magnesium Silver
011 1994, 11th car built, Carbon
012 1994, 12th car built, Dark Silver
013 1994, 13th car built, Magnesium Silver
014 1994, 14th car built, Titanium Yellow
015 1994, 15th car built, Jet Black
016 1994, 19th car built, Aubergine
017 1994, 16th car built, Calypso Red Pearl
018 1994, 17th car built, Midnight Blue Pearl
020 1994, 18th car built, Mid Blue Pearl
021 1994, 20th car built, Blood Red Solid
022 1994, 21st car built, Genesis Dark Blue
023 1994, 23rd car built, British Racing Green
024 1994, 22nd car built, Carbon
025 1994, 24th car built, Dark Purple Pearl
028 1995, 29th car built, Grand Prix Red
029 1994, 25th car built, Brazilian Brown Metallic
031 1995, 27th car built, Special White
033 1995, 26th car built, Base Silver
036 1995, 30th car built, Pale Blue Metallic
037 1995, 28th car built, Special Silver
038 1995, 31st car built, Base Silver
039 1995, 32nd car built, Creighton Brown
040 1995, 34th car built, Magnesium Silver
042 1995, 33rd car built, Base Silver
043 1995, 36th car built, Black Metallic
044 1995, 37th car built, Base Silver
045 1995, 38th car built, Dark Silver
046 1995, 39th car built, Genesis Blue Metallic
047 1996, 41st car built, Magnesium Silver
048 1996, 44th car built, Brilliant Metallic Blue
049 1996, 43rd car built, Mercedes Brilliant Silver
050 1995, 40th car built, Magnesium Silver
051 1996, 42nd car built, Dark Metallic Green
052 1996, 45th car built, Dark Blue Mica
053 1995, 35th car built, White
055 1996, 46th car built, Magnesium Silver
057 1997, 48th car built, Magnesium Silver
059 1998, 59th car built, Magnesium Silver
060 1996, 47th car built, Yellow
061 1997, 49th car built, Dark Burgundy
062 1997, 53rd car built, Magnesium Silver
063 1997, 51st car built, Magnesium Silver
064 1997, 50th car built, Magnesium Silver
065 1997, 52nd car built, Magnesium Silver
066 1997, 54th car built, Magnesium Silver
067 1997, 58th car built, Magnesium Silver
068 1997, 57th car built, Mercedes Brilliant Silver
069 1998, 60th car built, Mercedes Brilliant Silver
070 1997, 55th car built, Mercedes Brilliant Silver
071 1998, 61st car built, Historic Orange
072 1998, 62nd car built, Jet Black
073 1998, 63rd car built, AMG Green Velvet
074 1997, 56th car built, Magnesium Silver
075 1998, 64th and final F1 road car ever made, Yquem


GTR ’95 Chassis Index


Nine F1 GTR ’95's were constructed by McLaren during the first half of 1995. Their chassis numbers and histories are listed below:

01R McLaren, 1995 Le Mans 24 Hours: 1st (Lehto/ Dalmas/Sekiya).
02R GTC/Gulf Racing,
03R 04R GTC/Gulf Racing
05R BBA Competition
06R Mach One/Harrods
07R Giroix/Jacadi GRT
08R GTC/Gulf Racing
09R 'Ueno' Grey, very little known, believed never to have raced.

GTR ’96 Chassis Index

Nine 1996 spec F1 GTR were constructed between late 1995 and spring ’96.

010R Blood Red, McLaren's testing and development GTR. Rebuilt for Pink Floyd drummer, Nick Mason. UK road registered K40 MCL. Featured in Evo 47.
011R Giroix Racing Team/Franck Muller Technowatch
012R GTC/Gulf Racing
013R Team Lark McLaren
014R Team Lark McLaren
015R GTC/Gulf Racing
016R Team Bigazzi
017R Team Bigazzi
018R Team Bigazzi

GTR ’97 ‘Long Tail’ Chassis Index

Ten final specification, 1997 GTR were constructed by McLaren.

19R McLaren test and development car
20R Gulf Team Davidoff
21R BMW Motorsport
22R Gulf Team Davidoff.
23R BMW Motorsport
24R BMW Motorsport
25R Gulf Team Davidoff
26R BMW Motorsport
27R Parabolica
28R Davidoff/Gulf

Still dosent say where all the f1 road cars are thats what were lookin for but thanks alot Good JOB :thumbsup:

ditto.
also, what happened to chassis 19, 34, 35 etc? if they aren't used where do i pick them up?
i think you may be mistaken with xp2 and xp4, as i have photos of a bright blue mclaren with the crash dummy symbols hitting a wall...

The bodywork of crash cars tends not to be painted cause it's a complete waste of money.

XP2 appears light blue because, like most other crash prototypes, it was painted this colour (with a brush) to help the engineers work out what has happened during the crash (along with the yellow and black circles).

019, 026 & 027 were replaced by 01R, 02R & 03R. Those numbers along with 030, 032, 034, 035 & 041 were never allocated to any chassis, apparently.

I am trying to find out who owns all the Mclaren F1s.
Here's what I have sofar.

Sultan of brunai.........8 Mclaren F1s(thats not a typo)
Ralph Laren...............2 Mclaren F1s
Jay Leno..................1 Mclaren F1
Wycliff Jean..............1 Mclaren F1
liam Howlett..............1 Mclaren F1
Elton John.................1 Mclaren F1
Dan Kennedy.............1 Mclaren F1

Does anyone know anymore
did you forget bill gates and mr.bean?

He may have forgotten Rowan Atkinson (aka: Mr. Bean), but Bill Gates has never been confirmed as an owner of any McLaren F1s.

Surely he could afford them all, but to my knowledge he has never owned a single one. If someone has credible info that differs from that, please share it.

>8^)
ER

He may have forgotten Rowan Atkinson (aka: Mr. Bean), but Bill Gates has never been confirmed as an owner of any McLaren F1s.

Surely he could afford them all, but to my knowledge he has never owned a single one. If someone has credible info that differs from that, please share it.

>8^)
ER
then how come i remember reading an article that he has paid the government to make the mclaren legal in all states cause he was in the state that the mclaren wasnt legal or some crap like that i read it like 1 or 2 years ago...

He'd sign it if he didn't own the car any more....which I believe is the case here. The racing part I don't know, thats what the mechanic there told me, and It's all I have to go off of.

There were quite a few nice cars there. It's a body shop, but the only car the looked like they were working on was a Z8. Otherwise there was a Gallardo, a Vanquish, an F50, an F40, and a couple other Ferraries (how do you pluralize Ferrari anyway?). The guy that tipped me on the shop said there was an Enzo, but I didn't see it. There is a chance its there, but I don't know the shape of an Enzo under a cover and was far too awestruck finding a McLaren.


your lucky you got pics. ive been there more then a few times but was never allowed to take pics

he does have an enzo, its yellow.

two 355s
288gto
db7
murci
arnage t
sl
turbo

are some of this others

then how come i remember reading an article that he has paid the government to make the mclaren legal in all states cause he was in the state that the mclaren wasnt legal or some crap like that i read it like 1 or 2 years ago...

The DOT guideline/law that allows for McLarens to be imported to the USA is called "Show&Display", but it allows for a lot more cars than just the F1 to make it onto our shores. The law is often referred to as "Bill Gates' Law" as he was one of the prime contributers to the lobbying that got it enacted. At the time, Bill owned a Porsche 959 which faced similar legal problems in the way of DOT and EPA regulatations that the F1 did. Bill had tried unsuccessfully for years (apparently) to import his beloved 959 and was not able to until Show&Display became law in late 1999.

Again, to my knowledge the man has never owned a McLaren F1, and its going to take some very credible evidence to get me to believe otherwise. Every mention of it I have seen has never been backed up with any proof what so ever.

>8^)
ER

Its called a show car liscence and it allow for show but the car is only valid for 1 year and then it must be renewd. The car is only allowed to gain 2000 miles ova the term of its stay here. Theres no pay off however a show car liscence is about 900$ here small price to pay when you have a 1.2 million dollar car in your driveway.

your lucky you got pics. ive been there more then a few times but was never allowed to take pics


The guys there were extremely friendly. They seemed to be surprised that I asked to come in and asked to take pictures, and they were more than happy to answer any questions.

Its called a show car liscence and it allow for show but the car is only valid for 1 year and then it must be renewd. The car is only allowed to gain 2000 miles ova the term of its stay here. Theres no pay off however a show car liscence is about 900$ here small price to pay when you have a 1.2 million dollar car in your driveway.

Where did you get this information - because none of it has anything to do with the DOTs "Show&Display" provisions... :uhoh: :confused: :screwy:

>8^)
ER

The guys there where extremely friendly. They seemed to be surprised that I asked to come in and asked to take pictures, and they were more than happy to answer any questions.

hmmm, ill have to try it again.

i first found it after reading this board. they said that they were cutting off people coming into the garage because information was floating around about it on the net (which i assume was this board)

Theres no such thing as show and display only It has to be registered under a liscence wether that be a kit car regular or show car or exoitic coverage. How do I know this imformation its because I have read almost every epa/custom/dot requirment theres is to know especially on imports or any other foreign car (ex mclaren)

hmmm, ill have to try it again.

i first found it after reading this board. they said that they were cutting off people coming into the garage because information was floating around about it on the net (which i assume was this board)

That’s exactly why I haven't named the shop. They were too nice and I wouldn't want just any idiot with complete disregard for personal property wondering into the shop and harassing them. I'm very respectful when I'm around high end cars, and people can pick up on that.

They were too nice and I wouldn't want just any idiot with complete disregard for personal property

:thumbsup:

Theres no such thing as show and display only It has to be registered under a liscence wether that be a kit car regular or show car or exoitic coverage. How do I know this imformation its because I have read almost every epa/custom/dot requirment theres is to know especially on imports or any other foreign car (ex mclaren)

Oh you must be right then.... :grinno:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ShowDisplay/howtosd072003.html (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/ShowDisplay/howtosd072003.html)

You must have missed that one.... :loser:

>8^)
ER

Im sorry they renamed it since o1 and added 500 miles to the limit im still right. My question is y did they rename it? It was called the show car rule but that was 01.

It's been "Show & Display" for as long as I can recall - at least since it was enacted in 1999.

Here's some more info on it explaining the relation to Gates.

Thank You, Mr. Gates (http://www.ferraris-online.com/Articles/SCM_9912.html)

>8^)
ER

In JDM terms its know as show car liscence and its not just those cars it also applys to skylines,supras & any other Jdm vehichle. almost all cars @ sema that are imports/Jdm vehichles have a show car liscence.

It seems you are referring to a short term importation exception that has nothing to do with the ability to keep a car like a McLaren here in the USA on a permanent basis.

I've never said what you are referring to doesn't exist - just that it has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

>8^)
ER

Do you know which mclaren was at sema 1-2 years ago? Just a hunch that was registerd under that.

The only McLaren I have seen displayed at SEMA was Dan Kennedy's - it's been there the past two years actually. The first time it was strapped to a trailer behind the matching SMA Hummer H2. The following year it was on the floor next to it.

His car is here legally in the USA under the "Show & Display" guidelines we've been discussing and wouldn't have needed any special "show car license" to participate at SEMA. All it needs is a booth.

>8^)
ER

Bill had tried unsuccessfully for years (apparently) to import his beloved 959 and was not able to until Show&Display became law in late 1999.

>8^)
ER

What about before 1999? What did McLaren owners do to get their cars in the states prior to that law?

Prior to 1999, most of the F1s were simply not here. As the Mike Sheehan article I linked to mentions, the 'Show & Display' law really opened the flood gate.

Amerispec Corp had managed to get 7-8 F1s here as "Ameritech F1s" sometime in 1997 using some loop holes in the existing laws and other apparent tricks, but some would argue that what they really were doing was not completely legal. I say who cares - the laws were dumb and still kind of are. One other infrequent participant here prefers to demonize and criminalize the whole Amerispec scenario. :screwy: :rolleyes:

Besides the Amerispec F1s, there could have been a few other F1s here prior to 1999 that weren't completely legit, or could have come in under some other temporary import provision, but I'm not aware of any specifically.

>8^)
ER

Is Kennedy's car and Ameritech F1?

I assume that Kennedy's F1 was here prior to 1999, because by the end of 2003 it already had over 20,000 miles on it. If he did bring it over after '99 under "show and display" status, then he'd better pray that the DOT doesn't spot check his mileage.

No - Kennedy's F1 was not an Ameritech F1 - but he's also not the original owner and there's no telling just how many of those 20,000 miles he's been responsible for since the car arrived in the USA. I do know he's one of the owners that uses his F1 to the fullest, and can only imagine he is careful to document the mileage so as not to get himself into any trouble. ;)

The 7 Ameritech F1s belong to Herb Chambers, Carl Beal, Larry Ellison, Ralph Lauren got 2, Gerd Petrik also got 2 (but eventually both of his were resold. One of Petrik's went to Elon Musk and the other was at Newport Autosport for a long time, then MotorCars Intl had it, and eventually it ended up being sold to an unknown customer here in North America. Jay Leno's F1 also came into the US via Amerispec Corp, but I recall there's something about Leno's or the way that Amerispec Corp brought it in that it wasn't handled exactly like the other 7. I don't know the details on that exactly though - I believe his came in in 1998 - and I do believe its since been through the 'S&D' process following its arrival here. I don't think Leno's is actually classified as an "Ameritech F1" - though I could be wrong.

Earlier it was reported that when S&D was enacted in 1999 that all the Ameritech F1 owners were told they needed to file the applications to get S&D approval for their F1s, but the same person that said that also stated that only one owner began the process (Lauren I believe) and that none had completed it. I don't know if that still remains true, but that's what he had said. I don't believe that Musk has had to file an S&D application on the one he acquired, nor do I believe that the new owner of Petrik's other F1 has had to file.

I'd imagine these 7 cars aren't all that high on the DOT priority list if they are in some kind of violation of the law. When they entered the country, the methods involved were deemed legal at the time so I believe it would be hard without a long legal fight to do anything about them. Only after those 7 cars came in did the DOT/EPA put a stop to what Amerispec Corp was doing.

Maybe that person who likes to be so vocal on this topic will chime in again to set me straight on anything that might be inaccurate here. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject and I do believe he's still an active reader here.

>8^)
ER

Im back this is for all the non belivers!!! (you know who you are)
There was a Mclaren F1 crushed. If you want to know find a copy of Autoexpress issue 685. The interview is in there. And to all the haters, know what your going on about before you talk to someone who seems them everyday.

Ok, i'm still fairly sure none was crushed. Who was interviewed?

Btw, did you meen "sees" instead of "seems"?

Maybe that person who likes to be so vocal on this topic will chime in again to set me straight on anything that might be inaccurate here. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject and I do believe he's still an active reader here.

Haha, i think he's long gone

Still here. Still sorting who the real people are. Peleton - you get it right most of the time. Sorry you don't care. But you've probably never been a victim. Here is the memo, legally obtained. And you say there are no criminals :-)

Date: 01/18/2000 04:16 pm (Tuesday)
From: George Entwistle
To: Ken Weinstein; Taylor Vinson
CC: Luke Loy
Subject: Re: Telephone call from Dick Fritz
On March 5, 1999, Pacific Automobile Appraisers requested the importation status of a 1998 McLaren F yIN SA9AB5ACOY 1048067. This is a vehicle owned by ******* (Petrik) which also bears an AIVIERITECH VIN 1A9MC99L8SA3 98067. The inquiry was on the McLaren VIN. How should we respond to such questions? After discussions with Mr. Fritz, on March 26, 1999, he stated that he would submit a petition for the McLaren F 1 and the Bugattis once he became a Registered Importer. This was to be done to correct importation of these vehicles. Fritz became an RI on March 23, 1999. To date no petitions have been received. If we take the position that they are US certified vehicles then no one may import a McLaren or Bugattis under Show or Display.
A 1994 Bugatti EBI 1OSS,,ZA9BBO2EORCD39O18 was imported on paper as a Box 3 and as a Box 7 electronically on December 23, 1997. For some reason the vehicle ended up in the trade. Customs called on a Bugatti in the trade zone on February 4, 1999. Based on the previous interp to Lipardt Customs was advised that the vehicle could not be conformed by Ameritech as the manufacturer. This vehicle was later exported to Canada and attempted reentry as a box 2A in March 1999. After being denied entry as a complying vehicle it entered as a box 3 with Fritz as the RI. To date no petition has been received.
If any of these vehicles are sold and inquiries are made how do we respond. How will the interp address this?
>>> Taylor Vinson 0 1/18/00 02:O5PM>>>
Dick Fritz phoned me this (Tues.) afternoon about the matter we discussed this morning. Apparently the initiative to reenter vehicles under show or display comes from OVSC and he does not understand the reason why. He does not want to upset his customers by telling them they have to reenter their vehicles at this late date. He does not want to send the letter whose draft he sent Luke last week, but was trying in the draft to accommodate his understanding of what OVSC wants.
There are 9 vehicles that he certified as the manufacturer, 7 of which were imported in 1997 and 2 in 1998. Seven are McLarens and two are Bugattis. All have VINs assigned him, and not to McLaren or Bugatti, Customs has liquidated the entries on all 9 vehicles.
When these vehicles left the trade zone, he informed me that 6 were entered under Box 2A and the remaining 3 under Box 3 or Box 7 of the HS declaration form. Although the proper way to enter these vehicles would have been pursuant to a part 593 determination and through a registered importer who would then conform them, I surmise that OVSC does not regard them as validly entered because conformance was performed in a trade zone, and that the way to cure this error is to change their status to “show or display.”
This appears to be a paper exercise with no safety benefit. The vehicles were admitted as certified and conforming in accordance with 49 Usc 30112, and customs liquidated the entries without demanding redelivery. That seems sufficiently ‘legal to me that Fritz ought not to be advising owners at this late date that their vehicles were entered illegally. Any difficulties that an owner may have with insurance companies and state registrations are matters between Fritz and his customers.
He’d be happier letting the matter rest, and I should think we would be too.

My guess why the Mclaren isnt fully legal like any other car is just for the fact of emissions NOT hp. It would definetly pass all dot safety regulations with fly colors.

"I don't think Leno's is actually classified as an "Ameritech F1" - though I could be wrong."

No, you're correct...it was brought in via normal show or display requirements. I believe in late 2000/early 2001

Best
Steve

Leno's DOT was S&D. Leno's car was called a 1995 even though it is a 1994 because they used Fritz's/JK's cert to EPA the car. When you cert a car you test one, allow two in without testing although EPA has now clamped down. I believe Steve (along with MI) used Fritzee/JK's cert for 072 as well. Or maybe not. The JK cert is a joke. The BMW part numbers for the cats don't exist and don't carry proper BMW numbering. The cert also states that the cars are OBD II compliant. There is a JK signature to this. Which is why Mr. Smith (EPA) took a walk early, I believe. The cars were serviced at BMW's LA centre.


No, you're correct...it was brought in via normal show or display requirements. I believe in late 2000/early 2001

Best
Steve[/QUOTE]

Still here. Still sorting who the real people are.

I've seen a few phonies around here, but I usually just assume that they are you.... ;) :lol: I mean - are you real? :confused: I have little to hide - I'm just a 28 yr old car enthusiast from Thousand Oaks, CA who's been intrigued by the F1 since it's creation, and that passion has grown in recent years as they've proliferated into the USA. I'd love to know more about the user know as 'gerd'. I have my suspicions, as I'm sure others do as well, but I could live without knowing I guess...

Peleton - you get it right most of the time.

Thanks - I'll take that as a compliment if you don't mind. I do try hard to make sure what I share is accurate or has been obtained through reliable sources. In fact, although we have our differences, you have proven to be one of those I would consider a "reliable source" even if you sometimes lace your info/replies with other things I'd consider a little wacky. :grinno: :nono: It would be nice to know the rest of what you know, but I do appreciate what you are willing to share when you do, and can understand why you might have some limitations. Fair enough, right?

Sorry you don't care. But you've probably never been a victim. Here is the memo, legally obtained. And you say there are no criminals :-)

Well it's true, I've never been a victim. I'm not in this business - I work in I.T. for a large financial institution - so how could I have been? I say there are no criminals because I don't believe in the foundations of the laws that keep these types of cars from our shores. It's probably a naive opinion to think that, but my passion for the cars overrides my sensibilities on the matter. Sure the laws have some good purpose, but I fully believe that exceptions should be made in certain situations where the cost to certify a vehicle under every FMVSS simply isn't practical. Obviously others agreed since we finally got something to make it happen in 1999, and cars like the Lotus Elise and Saleen S7 have been given waivers to get them onto our roads. Whether the 'Show or Display' piece of legislation was put through under a less than proper scenario or not doesn't concern me - I'm just glad it was done.

He’d be happier letting the matter rest, and I should think we would be too.

Does that mean your crusade is ending? You've had some pretty strong views in the past that don't coincide with that statement. I recall you suggesting long ago that these people who "broke the law" would eventually face prosecution and the cars in question were in jeopardy of being removed as well. Does this mean you no longer believe that stuff to be true? Just curious... Anyway - if that's the case, I'd be willing to stop giving you so much grief on the subject if that's what you were suggesting. :thumbsup:

I really want this forum to be a open and friendly environment where people feel free to share any info they might have. However, that won't happen if it appears there are persons here on some kind of witch hunt. That kind of behavior isn't conducive to that utopia I just described, ya know... ;)

Well that's my piece - call it the olive branch I guess. :lol: Let me know your thoughts, or go back to your normal habit of lurking if you want. I'll say again, that I have appreciated many of your positive contributions to this forum and would hope to see more in the future. :cool:

>8^)
ER

P.S.: Sorry to drag this thread off topic to discuss some of this, but I thought it would be beneficial to place the comments in the open forum since so many of the negative ones have been here as well.

"I don't think Leno's is actually classified as an "Ameritech F1" - though I could be wrong."

No, you're correct...it was brought in via normal show or display requirements. I believe in late 2000/early 2001

Best
Steve

If you don't mind me asking, what is your association with Leno's F1?

Also, I believe that I'm right about his car being here in the USA in ~1998 - can you confirm or deny that at all? :confused: I'll have to check when I get home, but I have two photos of Leno's car as it was leaving Amerispec Corp that I got from a former employee there and I believe he claimed they were taken in 1998.

>8^)
ER

Thousand Oaks, CA

I was just there 1 week ago thats a nice area. West lake very nice I saw a lambo a ferrari 360 challenge and many other nice cars.

I was just there 1 week ago thats a nice area. West lake very nice I saw a lambo a ferrari 360 challenge and many other nice cars.

Thanks - I've been here since ~1989 and really like it too.

And yes, there's quite a bit of wealth in the area (especially Westlake Village/Malibu) and therefore lots of nice cars, but probably not as much as some other areas around SoCal like Bel Air/Beverly Hills or some of the areas in Orange County.

>8^)
ER

My uncles has a porsche gt2 old version we went through the mountain pass to mailibu FUN :evillol: Those truck emergency brake fail/runnaway stops scared me though :screwy: has that ever happend when you have been there?

Nope - I've never seen anyone use the runaway vehicle zones. I have seen a car avoid using them and it had crashed into the rock wall on the other side of PCH at the end of Kanan Rd. :eek: :lol: I'm assuming that's the one you are referring to.

= = = = =

Back to this....

He’d be happier letting the matter rest, and I should think we would be too.

Actually - after reading the letter once again, its somewhat unclear if that's actually a part of the letter, or something you added. I originally assumed you added it, thus I made my comments you see above. Now I'm beginning to think that was the wrong assumption - oops... :uhoh: :lol: - but the comments I made still stand. :thumbsup:

>8^)
ER

silicon valley auto group took cliffs red mclaren to concorso italiano in monterey today. so be expecting lots of pictures of it to be popping up over the next few days.

it is indeed #28. i took a pic of the plaque, but it isnt super clear. i can post it when i get home in a few days

Cool - it's always nice to hear that some McLaren owners here in the USA actually do "Show & Display" their cars. :thumbsup:

Waits impatiently for pics... :lol:

While I wait, I think I shall begin violently kicking myself for not making it up there again this year. :banghead: :banghead: :loser:

>8^)
ER

If you don't mind me asking, what is your association with Leno's F1?

Also, I believe that I'm right about his car being here in the USA in ~1998 - can you confirm or deny that at all? :confused: I'll have to check when I get home, but I have two photos of Leno's car as it was leaving Amerispec Corp that I got from a former employee there and I believe he claimed they were taken in 1998.

>8^)
ER

I'm quoting myself to record this moment in history - I made a mistake and was spreading false information up there when I had the evidence to correct myself right under my nose. :banghead: Please forgive me... :lol2:

I checked the image properties on those two photos of Leno's F1 I received from the Amerispec employee and they were taken on 8/04/2000 @ 9:13 and 9:21 AM with a Ricoh RDC-5300 camera (pretty nifty how you can see all that stuff - ;) ). So, I was wrong and I guess Leno's car didn't get here in 1998. Shame on me... :thumbsdow :loser: ;)

= = = = =

I also went back to the forum where I was passed those photos, and found the post they came from. I wanted to see if there was any additional info in regards to the dates - thinking that I must have read that 1998 date somewhere. :screwy: :lol:

Here's a copy of the text of his post with the photos as he presented it.

Hey, I'm the guy who worked at Amerispec. Amerispec unfortunately doesn't have a website.
Yeah, ever since that collector car law was announced, McLarens don't have to go through that uglification process. It's funny, because there are a bunch of those bumper-ette things lying around Amerispec. Oh, and all the modifications were done without drilling one hole, or cutting one wire for easy reversal.

This is a McLaren being loaded into the transporter.

http://a4.cpimg.com/image/62/6E/38040674-17a7-028001AD-.jpg

Those are my sneakers on the edge cause I'm in the car :)

http://a9.cpimg.com/image/7B/6F/38040699-cb54-028001AD-.jpg

One thing I regret was never getting a chance to ride in (or really drive) that car.



I asked him if he had more photos and info, but he never came back to reply. That post was dated 8-25-2002 - almost two years old now - and that date happens to be my birthday, so I guess this pair of photos were like gifts to me on that day. :thumbsup:

= = = = =

Here's some other humorous items to come from that nearly two year old thread:

- Apparently I had only seen photos of Leno's, Beal's, Selldorff's #007, Blair's XP4, and Kennedy's F1 at the time of that thread as far as cars confirmed to be in the USA were concerned. :disappoin :lol:

- I still thought that Kennedy's F1 was the last road car made, painted "Yquem" :banghead: :nono:

- At the time I was following up on a rumors from M5.com that Mr Selldorff also owned a GTR that was kept in England - we all know the end to that story. :D

- I only had approximately 1000 images in my F1 photo archive at the time. Now that figure hovers closer to 7000 or so. :eek:

My how time can change things... :bigthumb:

>8^)
ER

"He’d be happier letting the matter rest, and I should think we would be too."

No my quote. This is the telling line from the OVSC memo that OVSC knew and covered it up.

Remember, things are not always as they appear. Several people on this forum have attempted to tracer route and other wise hack me. Which is good for record keeping and by design. The person you think I am does not as a rule post. But I am grateful to him, by design. As I have ruminated before, being on the web is like being on an elevator - you never know who is listening.

I am not aware of any waviers for the Elise or the Saleen S7. The older Elise is illegal.

Do you know if it's still that beautiful shade of Aubergine?

>8^)
ER

Hey Peloton, do you (or anyone else) have a picture of the aubergine car? I've never seen pictures of it. Does it really look like one big eggplant?

"He’d be happier letting the matter rest, and I should think we would be too."

No my quote. This is the telling line from the OVSC memo that OVSC knew and covered it up.

You're most certainly correct on that point, it is a very telling line. :eek7: ;) But, I'll go back to an argument I made long ago when this was a more actively debated topic around here.

Who was/is the victim here? :confused:

If you're going to claim that you were a victim because you weren't able to get away with the same tricks then I just really have a hard time feeling sorry for you in that regard. You're going to need more than "Its not fair" - honestly, did it truly "cost" you anything because Fritz played his games? I'd imagine justifying your loss may be hard to quantify given that when Fritz was active with these cars there was not a way to do it within all the letters of the law. Certainly, assuming you're in the same business as Fritz, you can't claim that you lost any real customers during that time. I mean it sucks, but it's hardly something to be bitter over when more than 5 years have passed since the theoretical injustice occurred.

I suspect I am a lot younger than you are, but even I have realized that it's quite often people with friends in high places are allowed to get away with things many others are not. There's no need to get all bent out of shape about it - that's just the way this world works sometimes. In the grand scheme of things (and I know you used to debate this heavily with a certain member who no longer hangs around here) who was really harmed by allowing these 7 very powerful, but very safe and very clean-running McLaren F1s into the USA? Do you really feel that the entire country is placed in some kind of danger by allowing these cars onto the public roadways of the USA? I sure don't see the dangers.

Remember, things are not always as they appear. Several people on this forum have attempted to tracer route and other wise hack me.

Well, to be very frank, maybe that's because you've acted like an ass at times. People who have extreme opinions and voice them publicly are often attacked or ridiculed (there's another fact of life for you) and this behavior goes back to the beginning of time practically. Again I will ask you - is this really something you feel so strongly about, as to continue with your crusade? If so, why? :confused:

Which is good for record keeping and by design. The person you think I am does not as a rule post. But I am grateful to him, by design.

How do you know who I think you are? I can think of several possibilities and am am well aware of the fact that my lack of information could allow you to be someone I have never even considered or have any knowledge of. Like I said, I can live without knowing I guess. I'll just continue referring to you as "Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease" - you know: heartburn, acid regurgitation, and other symptoms that make you sick to your stomach and make things painful top swallow. Kind of an ironic analogy, huh? :evillol:

As I have ruminated before, being on the web is like being on an elevator - you never know who is listening.

True - very true.

I am not aware of any waviers for the Elise or the Saleen S7. The older Elise is illegal.

Both cars were certified for sale after receiving waivers for certain FMVSS'. I don't have the exact details, but someone as resourceful and connected as yourself should have no trouble finding the info if you're so inclined.

I guess my olive branch didn't interest you... Oh well. :)

>8^)
ER

I'll just continue referring to you as "Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease" - you know: heartburn, acid regurgitation, and other symptoms that make you sick to your stomach and make things painful top swallow. Kind of an ironic analogy, huh? :evillol:

Great, great comeback. :worshippy

Sticks and stones...

Nice try at engagement.

We all have our reasons for being here. Like I said about the elevator.

I don't read all the content of your posts. Just enough to stop.

Sticks and stones...

Nice try at engagement.

I don't want to fight here - that's not my goal. Understand that with your attitude, you're not really welcome here. At least not from my perspective - maybe others will agree. Change your tune, and I'll change mine. I already mentioned one member who you've driven away. There are probably others who remain in the shadows that we don't even know about, or active ones who keep things to themselves so as to avoid sharing them with you. For those of us who aren't here for devious reasons, like myself and many of the other passionate members of the forum, your presence and attitude is surely hurting our cause. :thumbsdow

We all have our reasons for being here. Like I said about the elevator.

I don't read all the content of your posts. Just enough to stop.

I tried to bury the hatchet here, but you still don't want to play. :loser:

It's obvious you fear having an open exchange and actually answering my 'tough' questions. Why not just go back to lurking and trolling with alternate usernames then - your participation here won't be missed. :disappoin

>8^)
ER

Wow..... I guess I got the party a little late to hear the fireworks. I'm a rookie to these boards and don't always have time to read each post so I'll apologize in advance for my ignorance.

Can someone bring me up to speed on the controversy over importation of a few cars that collectively put out less emmissions than a weedeater?

Best
Steve

The claim is that it wasn't done "by the book" and that the letter of the law at the time did not allow Amerispec Corp run by Dick Fritz to import those 7 F1s the way he did. The report is furthered by claims that Fritz had insider help at the DOT and other various agencies to get these cars through the red tape a little easier.

There's also has a discussion in regards to the later model year McLarens being allowed in now under "Show & Display", as apparently there is no real way to meet the EPAs OBD-II requirements for post-1995 cars with the F1. Someone must have figured out a way to appease the EPA though, as a few of these cars are now "here".

That's it in a nutshell. Our outspoken opponent may have more to add in the way of details or "proof". :rolleyes:

>8^)
ER

so america got some good cars and then people complain? america makes thousands of crap cars every day and it's seen as a good thing! i'm confused...

Just curious...

What harm is done (ie. who is injured or hurt) by the importation of a few "show or display" vehicles? Each time one of these cars enters the country, customs collects their duties, the EPA gets their fee of several thousand bucks. Last time I checked the gov isn't running a budget surplus and in this case the taxpayer isn't footing the bill for a few wealthy individuals to have their toys.

IMO, the DOT/EPA is responsible for hundreds of thousands of cars entering the country annually. I don't know individuals in these agencies on a personal level so I can't speak to their motivation, but it appears that an inordinate amount of time and energy is being spent giving a difficult time to a few automotive enthusiasts that want a special piece in their collection.

Best
Steve

But cars from 03+ can wait 2 years to get checked by emissions im not sayn the Mclaren is 1 of them but other exotics like ferraris,lambos & nope cant say saleen :grinno: TVR then all could wait two years before getting the show & display permit.

(I dont know if the 2 year rule applies to exoitics or just mass production models)

thats cause the saleen relies on a 1948 chevy truck engine.... i think the drivetrain passed already

V-10 - you echo my opinions on the issues as well.

I don't know what drives this person, and they have yet to properly explain their position despite repeated attempts to get the answer out of him.

Based on the back and forth discussion he and I have had in the previous posts in this thread, I'm guessing the answer you are looking for is lot like the answer to this question:

"How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?"

THE WORLD MAY NEVER KNOW :screwy: :grinno:

>8^)
ER

thats cause the saleen relies on a 1948 chevy truck engine.... i think the drivetrain passed already

No a very highly tuned V8. :loser:

But cars from 03+ can wait 2 years to get checked by emissions im not sayn the Mclaren is 1 of them but other exotics like ferraris,lambos & nope cant say saleen :grinno: TVR then all could wait two years before getting the show & display permit.

(I dont know if the 2 year rule applies to exoitics or just mass production models)

It has nothing to do with exotics, or not exotics. New cars in CA are free from emissions testing for 4-5 years now, however these are cars where the manufacturer has done the work ahead of time to get them certified for sale here.

The issue with trying to bring a car in which is younger than 25 years old which was never certified for sale here is that the EPA requires you do the work (through a Registered Importer) to bring it into compliance with the rules which were in effect for the year the car was originally manufacturered.

>8^)
ER

Well there is 1 way lol you could save 10 years and move to canada. :naughty: :evillol:

ok ok so its a 1948 chevy truck engine with fuel injection! i give in!

(have to say it looks ffin cool though! you can see they checked the F1 for styling (good move) they just didn't pay much attn to mechanics, heavily worked 1948 truck engine Vs purpose built f1 inspired bavarian V12)

I don't know what drives this person, and they have yet to properly explain their position despite repeated attempts to get the answer out of him.

>8^)
ER

I think the answer is one of three possibilities or a combination of them:

A) The jealousy syndrome "I can't have it so you shouldn't be able to either."

B) The low self-esteem syndrome "If I make a fuss everyone will notice me."

or
C) The Barney Fife syndrome "Let's enforce every law on the books to the letter, paragraph and period and because I have a badge you have to pay attention to me.

sorry just thinking...

Best
Steve

good call steve

thats cause the saleen relies on a 1948 chevy truck engine.... i think the drivetrain passed already

The engine might be based on a design that dates back that far, but that's not the way the EPA will look at it.

The waivers that the S7 received have to do with certain Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards - a complex list of rules and guidelines governing vehicle design as it pertains to occupant safety. Saleen realized they could not meet all of them early on in their development process as it would be far too costly for them to burden. They were able to get the waivers for a short time to allow them to sell enough cars to be able to afford the further development. They recently renewed their application for those waivers, claiming that they haven't sold enough cars yet to be able to meet the guidelines they are side-stepping.

Here's the document if anyone cares to read it. The text begins in the middle of the 1st page. Its an Adobe .PDF file:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2004/pdf/04-1272.pdf

I have this in text format too and can paste it in here if anyone is interested. It's all kind of off topic, but I thought I'd paste what I had in here before the discussion went much further off track with specualtion.

>8^)
ER

hmmm how much does one of these things cost again? we've established xp-2 hit a wall for mclaren and they would have used HEAPS more in development than the S7...

I think the answer is one of three possibilities or a combination of them:

A) The jealousy syndrome "I can't have it so you shouldn't be able to either."

B) The low self-esteem syndrome "If I make a fuss everyone will notice me."

or
C) The Barney Fife syndrome "Let's enforce every law on the books to the letter, paragraph and period and because I have a badge you have to pay attention to me.

sorry just thinking...

Best
Steve

I addition to that GREAT list, I would add this one, which is really just a modification to "A":

A²) I wasn't able to do it too, so no one else should be able to get away with it either.

>8^)
ER

hmmm how much does one of these things cost again? we've established xp-2 hit a wall for mclaren and they would have used HEAPS more in development than the S7...

It doesn't mean that the S7 was never crash tested, it has to do with other things like the development of airbags, and now advanced airbags.

Actually, here's a good quote from the text:

In order to comply with the requirements of Standard No. 208, petitioner would have to redesign the following equipment: (1) Steering
wheel; (2) Steering column; (3) Dash panel (4) Gauge pod; (5) Seats and seat brackets; (6) Center console; (7) Interior trim panels; and (8) Wiring harness. Petitioner expects to rely on the continuous sales of S7 vehicles in order to fund a redesign of the above components. As previously stated, sales of the vehicle were delayed until March of 2003. As a result, petitioner did not have the resources necessary to bring the S7 in compliance with the non-advanced air bag requirements of Standard No. 208.

If we could drop this discussion considering this is the McLaren F1 forum, that would be great. I was only using it as an example in an earlier post to make a point, not to drive the topic in that direciton.

>8^)
ER

ok ok so its a 1948 chevy truck engine with fuel injection! i give in!


Thank you much better :biggrin:

isnt there some company that legalizes them? Like motorex does with skylines oh wait used to do any way :disappoin

Some company that legalizes what? :confused:

>8^)
ER

A company that would legalize cars (exotics) to meet us standards.

Btw ~ y arent u a mod?

A company that would legalize cars (exotics) to meet us standards.

Btw ~ y arent u a mod?

Yes there are companies that perform that work - the government calls them "Registered Importers". A company needs to be approved as an RI before they are able to submit the applications for vehicle approvals and handle the conversions. There are also Independent Commercial Importers that play a similar, but I would assume somewhat different role. I'm still trying to learn the distinction between an RI and an ICI.

Here's a recent list of RIs:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/web_RI_list07142004.html

Not all of those companies will specialize in exotics, and not all exotics are elligible or able to be certified. It's a convoluted process and admittedly, in my research to learn more about them, I have so far barely scratched the surface.

I dunno why I'm not a mod - this forum could sure use a little discipline every now and then. ;) :lol2:

>8^)
ER

I dunno why I'm not a mod - this forum could sure use a little discipline every now and then. ;) :lol2:

>8^)
ER

I suggested that a long time ago, but no one responed to my suggestion. :wink:

Come on guys, settle down. I'm having Supercars.net flashbacks here.

BTW, how come the McLaren forum doesn't have a steady moderator like some of the other big forums. Maybe we should ask Igor if he would make someone like Peloton or Mini a moderator so mindless banter like this won't be a problem anymore.

I'm one of 5 Admins on another message forum with well over 10,000 registered users actually, so I certainly have the experience required. I'm not sure the job is open here though. I talked to Oz (2nd in command, I believe) once or twice in the past about it and he told me they already had too many moderators on the forums. I don't think they specifically assign people to each one like other places and I guess none of their active moderators are interested in this forum as I rarely see one posting in here.

I've also sent at least one PM to Igor@AF requesting the slot long ago and never heard back. We rarely have problems in this forum though, so I just bother Oz now when I think something should be locked or deleted. I figure if I become enough of a thorn in his side, or he realizes that every time I hit him up I'm making the right call, maybe he'll break down and give me the reigns.

Anyway - I think only a letter writing campaign could make it happen, and like I said we don't have enough issues in here to warrant me starting one.

>8^)
ER

There are no mods on the mclaren forums so how can he say there are 2 many we need 1 here and u would be perfect I dont c whats the big deal about making u a mod.

Register R.I ~ MOTOREX 15607 NEW CENTURY DR, GARDENA, CA 90248 :biggrin: hehe

E for mod!

Register R.I ~ MOTOREX 15607 NEW CENTURY DR, GARDENA, CA 90248 :biggrin: hehe

Gov. List of R.I.'s - http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/graymarket_RI_list05282004.html

Look carefully at the middle of the list, and you might see a familiar name. :sunglasse

Edit: Actually, 2 familiar names.

Im lost im not sure which 1's you are talking about show the names and ill kno.

I recognize a bunch of them actually - but I have been doing some research on the subject.

This is probably the one you are referring to:

AMERISPEC CORPORATION
190 GEORGE WASHINGTON HWY, RIDGEFIELD, CT 06877

...but I believe that these others have had their hands in bringing in some of the other McLarens under "Show & Display".

= = = = =

G & K AUTOMOTIVE *
3231 SOUTH STANDARD AVE, SANTA ANA, CA 92705

J.K. TECHNOLOGIES *
3500 SWEET AIR ST, BALTIMORE, MD 21211

WALLACE ENVIRONMENTAL TEST LAB *
2140 WIRTCREST LA, HOUSTON, TX 77055
www.wallacelab.com

= = = = =

Those three with the '*' are also registered with the EPA as ICI's - I think I'm discovering the distinction now. RI is the DOT's acronym and ICI is the EPA's. All ICI's also appear to be RI's, but not vice versa. Looks like Ameritech is not yet in the good graces of the EPA. I recall they had J.K. Technologies help with the Ameritech F1s.

>8^)
ER

You are correct Peloton, but remember, I said that two would be recognizable to most of us. The two that I was reffering to in my post were the AMERISPEC CORPORATION and J.K. TECHNOLOGIES. I think that those are the two most widely known for bringing in McLarens.

RI's - Registered importers. DOT. OVSC. Title 49 CFR
ICI's - Indpendent Comercial Importers. EPA. OTAQ. Title 40 CFR

If you read the DOT memo, Fritzee/Ameritech was not an RI nor an ICI when the 7 (8) McLarens were brought in. He called himself a manufacturer. DOT choose to cover this fact up. I think he had inside help in this scenario. MY opinion. I don't believe he has any employees, only some help from a local shop. The JK "certs" appear to be BMW car 12 cylinder certs. It has been well known within the importing circles that using a similar engine for example like a MB 600 series 12 cylinder to "test" (cert) as a CLK GTR is common. Sound familiar? Oh, am I giving away too many secrets?

The memo also spells out how the scam worked. Call youself a manufacturer, subcontract the work to JK. EPA and DOT regs do not allow subcontracting on this basis. But, hey, when you're on a roll with ignoring rules, with support from the rule makers, what's the difference? I'm sure this methodology sounds familiar to some here on the forum.

I'm sure this methodology sounds familiar to some here on the forum.


Dude, why don't you just drop the whole thing now? What can you do about it besides make annoying little remarks about it? Give it up, there are plenty more fish in the sea.

Gerd
Are you suggesting that JK didn't test a Mclaren/BMW engine when they received their cert for the car? If so, how would one pull that off. Would you drop a 750il engine into a Mclaren chassis?

Best
Steve

RI's - Registered importers. DOT. OVSC. Title 49 CFR
ICI's - Indpendent Comercial Importers. EPA. OTAQ. Title 40 CFR

If you read the DOT memo, Fritzee/Ameritech was not an RI nor an ICI when the 7 (8) McLarens were brought in. He called himself a manufacturer. DOT choose to cover this fact up. I think he had inside help in this scenario. MY opinion. I don't believe he has any employees, only some help from a local shop. The JK "certs" appear to be BMW car 12 cylinder certs. It has been well known within the importing circles that using a similar engine for example like a MB 600 series 12 cylinder to "test" (cert) as a CLK GTR is common. Sound familiar? Oh, am I giving away too many secrets?

The memo also spells out how the scam worked. Call youself a manufacturer, subcontract the work to JK. EPA and DOT regs do not allow subcontracting on this basis. But, hey, when you're on a roll with ignoring rules, with support from the rule makers, what's the difference? I'm sure this methodology sounds familiar to some here on the forum.

Thanks for the info. :cool:

I don't see anyone disputing the claims you make about what transpired oh so long ago with those 7 F1s. But, remind us again "Barney", who is all this hurting? :confused:

>8^)
ER

BTW: "Barney" is a lot easier to type than "Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease" :biggrin: :p

Hey, Ray. Like X-ray or ray gun. Why is it suppose to hurt someone? But let's talk about hurt. Those of us that have been screwed, myself included on five cars, have been hurt. Everytime another "breaker of the rules" selfishly gets his car in not caring what his screw-ball antics do to others, it hurts. Financially. And there are thousands who have been hurt. Yes, thousands. Plus the taxpayers. But I'll leave that alone.

The F1 could have been done differently where EPA was concerned. Offers were made. But other choices where made. It doesn't surprise me that now it comes back to bite them in the ...

You and others critizise me on this, terrorism, etc. The apathy is abundant. "As long as I get my car in, so what." philosophy is why the world is the way it is.

Anyway, I'm outta here, off to der Motherland for some real driving.

Hey, Ray. Like X-ray or ray gun. Why is it suppose to hurt someone? But let's talk about hurt. Those of us that have been screwed, myself included on five cars, have been hurt. Everytime another "breaker of the rules" selfishly gets his car in not caring what his screw-ball antics do to others, it hurts. Financially. And there are thousands who have been hurt. Yes, thousands. Plus the taxpayers. But I'll leave that alone.

The F1 could have been done differently where EPA was concerned. Offers were made. But other choices where made. It doesn't surprise me that now it comes back to bite them in the ...

You and others critizise me on this, terrorism, etc. The apathy is abundant. "As long as I get my car in, so what." philosophy is why the world is the way it is.

Anyway, I'm outta here, off to der Motherland for some real driving.

Who are you calling Ray? :confused: If you are referring to me you are sadly mistaken my friend. In fact, if you ever make it out here to California, I'd be happy to meet you in person to dispell any myths you might have about me. I have nothing to hide...

You can bring along your 550 Maranello (in your suitcase), and I'll bring mine:

http://www.diecast18.com/pictures/mstFerrMananUp.jpg

:uhoh: :grinno:

= = = = =

Can there truly be a 'crime' if there is no 'victim'? :confused:

That's why it has to "hurt"...

Here's another life lesson for you "Nice guys sometimes finish last." You played by the rules and it apparently didn't work out for you. Others bent the rules and it worked for them.

Yes, this is the way the world is (it has been for longer than you and I have occupied space on it) so I doubt you are going to change things anytime soon.

Enjoy your trip. I'll miss your diatribes and you'll have to live without my banter in return. ;)

>8^)
ER

gerdI am not aware of any waviers for the Elise or the Saleen S7. The older Elise is illegal.


Yep, true, except when Sun international put a honda B18C engine in the back. The old elise with it's rover engine had emissions that were too dirty. The new Fed elise has a toyota engine.

The Fed elise has got waivers for it's bumpers - US lemonlaws stop any manufacturer selling a car that can't pass a 5 (or so?)mph bump test without significant damage... and the elise can't do that in it's current form.

Here's the waiver if you'd like to read it: http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/information/technical/waiver2004.html

HTH Craigy

Interesting Register of F1's thread guys! - FWIW I saw that Phil Collins' manager had one a few years back (same as genesis' manager?). I think it was dark blue.

Craigy

Yep, true, except when Sun international put a honda B18C engine in the back.

Except, I don't think those Elises were truly legal here in the USA even with the different engines from Honda - there are F20C swaps (orig S2000 motor) out there as well. I recall an article on the Sun International Elise where the owner of Sun International was quoted as saying something like - If a customer wants to know all the in's and out's of how it's legal, then that probably isn't the right customer for them. :lol:

Interesting Register of F1's thread guys! - FWIW I saw that Phil Collins' manager had one a few years back (same as genesis' manager?). I think it was dark blue.

Tony Smith is that man - the chassis number is #020 (we used to suspect it was #002 :uhoh: ) - and the car appears to be dark grey in color. Here's two shots of it. :cool:

http://a9.cpimg.com/image/A3/FD/33981859-30e1-0200010C-.jpg

http://a3.cpimg.com/image/A7/FD/33981863-99f2-0200014D-.jpg

I thought that he was also the Genesis manager, but it appears that 'Tony Smith' was know more commonly as Tony Stratton Smith, and he passed away in 1987. I can only assume that the two might somehow be related given the circumstances of the association with Phil and the similarity in their name, but I haven't found evidence of that yet. Strange, the kind of info you learn on the paths of research of McLaren F1 sometimes. :)

>8^)
ER

Except, I don't think those Elises were truly legal here in the USA even with the different engines from Honda - there are F20C swaps (orig S2000 motor) out there as well.

Tony Smith is that man - the chassis number is #020 (we used to suspect it was #002 :uhoh: ) - and the car appears to be dark grey in color.
>8^)
ER

Not trying to cause this thread to drift more than it already has but I don't know of any F20 honda conversions for the elise: there's no tranny suitable. There are plenty of B18C (old intergra) and K20/K20A/K20A2 (Civic Type-R) conversions running around though.

The photos I saw were from a newspaper in Scotland years ago - close up with flash as it was dark outside. I suspect that might be the reason why it looked blue to me? (perhaps underneath it all the car is blue even?)

Craigy

Not trying to cause this thread to drift more than it already has but I don't know of any F20 honda conversions for the elise: there's no tranny suitable. There are plenty of B18C (old intergra) and K20/K20A/K20A2 (Civic Type-R) conversions running around though.

It's ok - I had my wires crossed a bit. This company - www.prototyperacing.com - developed a kit for the Elise to drop in the K20A engine/transmission, but in their kit, the K20A is apparently tuned to make 240hp - or the same power as the F20C.

The photos I saw were from a newspaper in Scotland years ago - close up with flash as it was dark outside. I suspect that might be the reason why it looked blue to me? (perhaps underneath it all the car is blue even?)

If the photos were taken outside, a lot of times you'll pick up some of the blue from the sky in the reflection of the paint. You can see the same thing happening in the two photos I posted. An interesting note is that #020 was originally finished in "018 1994, 17th car built, Midnight Blue Pearl", but in close up photos I have seen of it in the past two years, it has always appeared to be black or very dark grey in color.

>8^)
ER

An interesting note is that #020 was originally finished in "018 1994, 17th car built, Midnight Blue Pearl", but in close up photos I have seen of it in the past two years, it has always appeared to be black or very dark grey in color.
:bigthumb: That's probably the best description of the colour.

Today I had the incredible fortune of spotting a McLaren F1. At first I thought my eyes decieved me! But it was a McLaren. What a startling sight. The odd part is that I live in a town of 2500 people about twenty miles north of Medford OR. It was about 11:00 am on a Saturday morning (today) we has headed into town, I was headed out. I have confirmed a Diablo owner in Shady Cove (where I live) but never expected to encounter a McLaren. Anybody have any ideas about who this car belongs to. It appeared to be a deep blue or purple car.

XP4 maybe?

What do you guys think?

hmm

what´s the actual registry list right now?

Today I had the incredible fortune of spotting a McLaren F1. At first I thought my eyes decieved me! But it was a McLaren. What a startling sight. The odd part is that I live in a town of 2500 people about twenty miles north of Medford OR. It was about 11:00 am on a Saturday morning (today) we has headed into town, I was headed out. I have confirmed a Diablo owner in Shady Cove (where I live) but never expected to encounter a McLaren. Anybody have any ideas about who this car belongs to. It appeared to be a deep blue or purple car.
A color would help

A color would help

Umm, read the very last sentence of his quote. :eek7:

Umm, read the very last sentence of his quote. :eek7:
My bad.


XP4

sorry guys I'm really a neophyte here. What does xp4 mean and about how rare is the car I saw?

by the way it did have a tall spoiler in the rear like the one pictured by mini magic's name

XP4 would have been the 4th prototype, however I doubt that's the car you saw.

If you in fact did see a McLaren F1, then you saw one of about 25 cars that are here in the USA now. I have a feeling that it might have been some other car - like an Ultima or Noble or maybe even a Saleen, but that is just my guess. A car in that color, and with the wing that you mention seeing is not known to be in the USA.

>8^)
ER

the car I saw was either a mclaren or a knock off. it was not a noble or a saleen it was a mclaren. it looked exactly like the one in mini magics picture. it was deep blue or purple and had a spoiler. I am a neophyte here, but an avid auto enthusiast. I specificaly looked for the badge on the left rear of the car, it was a mclaren. It is possible it was a knock off mclaren kit car if such a car is offered, that I am not aware of.

Interesting....

Was this car plated? If so, what state? There are almost no HDF Kitted F1s here in the USA, so it's really hard to say. Wyclef's F1 is the color you mention, but he doesn't have the wing you describe. XP4 wouldn't have the wing either. I'm also not familiar with any F1s being located in that area. The hard part about keeping track of these cars is that any new owner is free to change the car to suit their tastes, so you could have seen a car we know about that has been refitted by the factory.

I'd say try to keep a camera handy and maybe you will get lucky and see it again. To date, I have never seen a credible example of a McLaren F1 reproduction.

>8^)
ER

BTW: The McLaren badge on an F1 is on the right rear. ;)

by the way it did have a tall spoiler in the rear like the one pictured by mini magic's name

Well than, it's not XP4.

Can you post some pictures of a car with a comparable color to the McLaren you saw.

Maybe that will help.

The car in my pic:

http://flinger.ath.cx/F1/gallery/albums/825b/1715Mclaren_F1_11.jpg

XP4

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1035855&postcount=19

looks different to me... but as mentioned.. could have been repainted retrimmed and had spoler (and lip?) added.....

ooohhh can anyone remember seeing how the mirrors changed in development? might XP4 have had the other location? i think it was on the front pillar....

XP4 has the earlier production mirrors taken from the Citroen CX and used on various other exotics (Lotus, Aston, XJ220) but they are not high mounted - they're in the same position as the standard production mirrors.

>8^)
ER

Just saw Tony Smith (owner of 020) on the TV. He was taken part in the thourghbred grand prix series and says he made his money managing genesis and phil collins. He's not a relation of Tony Stratton Smith. Didn't catch what old F1 car he was drving, bet it was a McLaren though :) .

I am trying to find out who owns all the Mclaren F1s.
Here's what I have sofar.

Sultan of brunai.........8 Mclaren F1s(thats not a typo)
Ralph Laren...............2 Mclaren F1s
Jay Leno..................1 Mclaren F1
Wycliff Jean..............1 Mclaren F1
liam Howlett..............1 Mclaren F1
Elton John.................1 Mclaren F1
Dan Kennedy.............1 Mclaren F1

Does anyone know anymore

:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

I dont see Rowan Atkinson on your lists and then Tom Bryant-Meisner, Sweden, 3 of them.
One RoadCar, one GTR (orange) and a F1 racecar.
I know there is one more here in sweden, but i dont know who owns it. But that makes it four here in sweden, thats one in every 2.250.000 citizen... :eek:

Joey Stockholm

:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

I dont see Rowan Atkinson on your lists and then Tom Bryant-Meisner, Sweden, 3 of them.
One RoadCar, one GTR (orange) and a F1 racecar.
I know there is one more here in sweden, but i dont know who owns it. But that makes it four here in sweden, thats one in every 2.250.000 citizen... :eek:

Joey Stockholm




uhhhhh....?
Roadcar, yes, GTR, yes, F1 racecar????...what do you mean?
The GTR is the F1 racecar!?

He has a GTR longtail, is that the one you're reffering to as F1 racecar??
I doubt he has purchased a mp Formula 1?

:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

I dont see Rowan Atkinson on your lists and then Tom Bryant-Meisner, Sweden, 3 of them.
One RoadCar, one GTR (orange) and a F1 racecar.
I know there is one more here in sweden, but i dont know who owns it. But that makes it four here in sweden, thats one in every 2.250.000 citizen... :eek:

Joey Stockholm

This is a very old thread and has some outdated info, and some stuff is missing. We are aware of all three of Meisner's F1s. His road car is a chassis #051 - a '96 car painted green. His short tailed GTR is #11R, a '96-spec GTR that competed in the BPR Global GT series and at LeMans under the Frank Muller sponsorship. His longtail GTR wears the Schnitzer Team BMW Motorsports/FINA livery. I don't recall the chassis number off the top of my head, but could figure it out if I were home.

Atkinson's F1 is burgundy in color, and is chassis #061. I wasn't aware that he resided in Sweden though. I thought he was a Brit?

Anywho - welcome aboard. We're always pleased to take on another fan of the F1 in our ranks. :thumbsup:

>8^)
ER

Atkinson is not swedish. what I ment was that Meisner is, as me, living in Sweden, Stockholm!

Best city in the world! And a perfect place to watch supercars and yachts although we´re just around 9 million citizens!

Hi, i know the other Swedish F1 Roadcar is Silver and the owner lives in Malmö.