Aight, I went to the runs Sat night, and there was this silver STI just smoking everybody. I mean that guy was running things that night. He had the big Blitz intercooler peaking out and was getting props from everybody. And I was thinking to myself, man, I wanna pull up next to that guy someday and make his jaw drop with a little PSHHH from a BOV.

Now I have a 95 GSR with about 70k on the engine. After studying AF for a while I learned the harsh reality that turbo is best on an LS. Now turbo is possible on any car, but the GSR's vtec motor can only handle 8psi which is 4 short of the LS's 12psi motor. And that the Vtec cam lobes are not suited for turbo. So wait, when i bought my car i spent the extra money to get a GSR over an LS thinking that this thing was king of the street. But I find myself getting smoked by hatchbacks with b16's? This SUCKS. But still, I want that turbo. And I want to smoke that STI.

1. I was thinking of getting a T3 Turbo, cause that sounds like a decent size, and for a minute i was considering getting a premade kit like Greddy or something but those come with 18g turbos or something , so thats smaller right? Faster spool, but a lot less power in general right?

2. Those of you with custom turbo setups in GSRs, how much did you guys spend around? I want an intercooler too, so Im thinking that altogether its gonna cost roughly $2500 for everything? How much do shops charge to install turbo kits? Any recommends out in the Bay Area?

3. I plan to run only about 8psi of boost because I dont want to upgrade internals cause i heard that gets expensive. So all I really need is the manifold, turbo, downpipe, piping to throttlebody, and intercooler? whats an FMU? why do i need hondata? stock injectors ok? Will i be able to smoke an STI with a t3 turbo and intercooler?

I wanna bring the GSR back! Help me out peeps

turbo kits are good because they come with everything and you can aways upgrade later to a custom turbo.

my cousin had a gsr with a drag turbo kit, tuned weel it pushed 270WHP and ran 13.1 @ 107mph on street tires with low tire pressure.

as long as you dyno tune after you put on the drag kit, you can assure reliability and power.

CRVtec LSVtec custom turbo t3/4 Drag kit they are a few good ideas.

Ok
1. A T3/T4 hybrid would be a good choice, and it will allow you to up the boost later when you decide to build the internals.

2. $2500 would be enough to buy all the parts if you look in the right places.

3. Hondata is the best option for boosted hondas. A FMU is a fuel managment unit. The hondata will be enough along with some 440cc injectors, you don't need a FMU. Also the injectors are a moust to upgrade if you want to do this right.


so parts list is manifold,turbo,piping,intercooler,hondata, 440cc injectors,bov, waste gate, and alot of tunning.

i dont want to do CRVtec or LS/Vtec cause i bought a GSR for its engine. I know the others are better for turbo, but i hate the fact that i spent more for the better model only to downgrade later? anyways, i plan to get most of my stuff off of ebay cause thats the cheapest place i can think of. i see that stoneracing guy or ssautochrome whatever sell stainless manifolds and downpipes for roughly 200-275. those look pretty decent? and im guessing just grab some kind of garrett turbo? or that same guy offers a manifold,downpipe,turbo package for about 400-600, is that decent? is intercooler brand name essential? ive seen some that look pretty nice for about 200, and im guessing those are no name branders. and all the piping would have to be custom made at the shop since im piecing together the kit right? also the injectors are just plug and play arent they? so tuning is just droppin my car on a dyno and adjusting the hondata or whatever til its at optimum operation? arent dyno runs expensive? any suggestions for good shops around the bay area and price ranges would be really helpful. i have no idea where i would get this thing installed. a distant possibility is Modacar or Motorsport Techniques cause theyre pretty big companies, but im assuming their prices are pretty crazy. im used to ebay prices, like 150 for a new brand name intake instead of the 250 a shop would try to charge for the same thing. so my budget is a factor here. any backyard mechanics ever install their own turbo? gotta tap the oil pan or whatever right? im pretty sure im not good enough to do all that drilling or whatever, bolt on i can probably figure out but custom piping etc is most likely a shop cause they have the right tools. oh yeah what kinda power can i expect with just running 8psi for now? any integras out there been beating STI's? lemme know what you got under the hood to achieve that...

This is what you need http://members.aol.com/daytonimports/vtec.jpg
They can be had for around $75-110. you can contact Dayton Imports they carry them and they are $99 the last time I checked. Also you have to match the turbo to the manifold, there are differnet manifolds for different turbos. I would go with a T3 or a T3/T4 hybrid. And yes these are Garret turbos.

What was the STi running?

whtteg, what is that thing? i have no idea what it is. i think the sti was just exhaust and bov, maybe upgraded intercooler, should be about it. but stock sti is 300hp about right? would a drag gen 2 kit or the greddy kit be enough to smoke that? i think the drag gen 2 is a t3/t4 hybrid and the greddy is like an 18g? so thats pretty weak huh?.. but im only gonna be able to boost about 6psi to be safe until i can afford to upgrade internals, i read on another forum somewhere that with just an upgraded head gasket you can boost up to about 12-15psi? is that true? or will i not be able to do anything until i drop the compression of the gsr motor with some rods or whatever?

No i meant what quarter mile times? or were u not racing at a track?

whtteg, what is that thing? i have no idea what it is. i think the sti was just exhaust and bov, maybe upgraded intercooler, should be about it. but stock sti is 300hp about right? would a drag gen 2 kit or the greddy kit be enough to smoke that? i think the drag gen 2 is a t3/t4 hybrid and the greddy is like an 18g? so thats pretty weak huh?.. but im only gonna be able to boost about 6psi to be safe until i can afford to upgrade internals, i read on another forum somewhere that with just an upgraded head gasket you can boost up to about 12-15psi? is that true? or will i not be able to do anything until i drop the compression of the gsr motor with some rods or whatever?

It is for your oil line. It screws on to where your oil filter goes and then you screw your oil filter on to it. And presto you have a tap for the oil line to feed the turbo. Also upgraded head gasket is not enough to run 12-15psi safely. The real consern is detonation and the strength of the rods and pistons, you can break ring lands, wrist pins, rods etc. Good tunning with a hondata and you could go 12psi at the track, but sooner or later it will catch up to you. My advice is to build a custom kit if you know enough to do so or buy a drag kit. Then get a hondata and have it tuned. Then when you get the money you can put new rods, lower compression forged pistons, and a good head gasket with some ARP head bolts. Whatever you do if you ever take the head off the car DO NOT reinstall the stock head bolts. ARP head bolts are not that exspensive so go with those. And you would have to buy new stock bolts anyway so ARP is the way to go. I would not worry about reslevving the block unless you are planning on something over 15psi.

dont take advice from people who arent turboed and run NA. turbo costs more than $2500.

if you want to learn how to turbo...you really should read instead of just making a post answered about 50 times before. dont buy a fucking kit...they suck and their manifolds are for shit. not to mention some of the shit they use in the kits suck. buy it piece by piece and you will get more performance for less money

and anyone that runs a FMU is an idiot and wastes their money

225 fuel pump + 440/450cc injectors + uberdata + tuning= good fuel management.

list of all this shit you will need:

$310 Garrett Super 60 T3 Turbo
$300-500 Manifold
$200 Tial Wastegate
$100-200 BOV
$100 Chip Burner and all that stuff needed for uberdata
$100 Dyno time for tuning
$100 IC Piping
$350 FMIC
$50 Downpipe
$105 Etech cutout
$30-50 cut out and reducers
$350 Clutch
$50 Boost Gauge
$120 EGT Gauge
$30-50 Cluster for Gauges
$100 Fuel pump
$150-300 450cc Injectors
$100 for oil lines and adapters and t's

and still need vacuum lines, silcone tubing, and an air filter

just think that you can spend half the money that an STi did and you could smoke him. I also see turbo kits on ebay goin for $2500 all day long...

i have read many many af threads about the turbo route, and i know some of these questions have been asked before but there were some little details that i wanted to make sure exactly. of course every opinion has been ls turbo over gsr, but the sound of a nice bov just seduces me and i always look up to see it coming from a subaru or some other stock turbo car. i know there are tons of turbo honda/acuras out there but ive rarely ever seen them out on the streets of the bay area. anyways, my main concern was pricing, just really wanted to know how much people were spending out there. a lot of people say custom turbo is best perfromance, or a drag kit to make it easy and good enough power. nobody seems to support the greddy kit. yeah and it would be nice to smoke an sti and spend about 18k less than they did. will the t3/to4 turbo do the job? at 6-8psi? because any turbo could smoke somebody if theyre pushing a lot of pounds right? i hear other forums saying their going for 15-24psi on their honda, those gotta be track cars right? that much boost cant be too streetable can it? this is my daily driven car so i wanted something that drives pretty normal but will take off when i push on the gas. know what i mean? hey whtteg, so with that oil thing, i just plug it in and connect to the turbo? so no need to drill into anything else? i notice that ur ls is na and mostly basic mods but u know a lot about turbos, are u smoking a lot of cars with ur current set up? just curious what a na honda with basic bolt ons is capable of. some people with crx /zc motor told me they smoke wrx all day long.

dont take advice from people who arent turboed and run NA. turbo costs more than $2500.

if you want to learn how to turbo...you really should read instead of just making a post answered about 50 times before. dont buy a fucking kit...they suck and their manifolds are for shit. not to mention some of the shit they use in the kits suck. buy it piece by piece and you will get more performance for less money

and anyone that runs a FMU is an idiot and wastes their money

225 fuel pump + 440/450cc injectors + uberdata + tuning= good fuel management.

list of all this shit you will need:

$310 Garrett Super 60 T3 Turbo
$300-500 Manifold
$200 Tial Wastegate
$100-200 BOV
$100 Chip Burner and all that stuff needed for uberdata
$100 Dyno time for tuning
$100 IC Piping
$350 FMIC
$50 Downpipe
$105 Etech cutout
$30-50 cut out and reducers
$350 Clutch
$50 Boost Gauge
$120 EGT Gauge
$30-50 Cluster for Gauges
$100 Fuel pump
$150-300 450cc Injectors
$100 for oil lines and adapters and t's

and still need vacuum lines, silcone tubing, and an air filter

So where did I say anything about a FMU was a good thing? I suggested Hondata and some 440cc injectors, also i said that a custom kit would be the best route, but if he knows nothing about it and just wants something that is a direct bolt on kit then a drag kit would be the best thing. And $2500 is enough to build a turbo kit, I have alot of friends who have done this for $2500 and less. You have to look in the right places and also buying everything new is dumb, the turbo yes you should buy it new or have it rebiult before using it, but things like tail wastegate I see those going for around $100 all the time, BOV are not that expensive either. You can get a manifold used and piping can be made at home. Also you can pick up some 440cc injectors for $200 at the most.

.... hey whtteg, so with that oil thing, i just plug it in and connect to the turbo? so no need to drill into anything else? i notice that ur ls is na and mostly basic mods but u know a lot about turbos, are u smoking a lot of cars with ur current set up? just curious what a na honda with basic bolt ons is capable of. some people with crx /zc motor told me they smoke wrx all day long.

With the oil thing you still have to plumb the oil returm line to the oil pan , but you won't have to tap the back of the block for oil supply. Most ppl just take out the oil pressure sending unit and tee off of it for the ol, but I have heard of ppl having leaks and the tee breaking off etc. The kit in the pic is alot simpler.
And for my car , Well off the bottle it is mildly quick but on the bottle it smokes a good number of cars, I have only lost to 3 hondas on the bottle and they were all civic hatch's with B18C1 and turbo or N20. But also I only have the basic I/H/E when you really look at it b/c my cams and other stuff is waiting to be installed. I have to get some valve springs and some new main bearings then it will be low 13 sec time for me. My friend had the cams I have in his teg and he ran a 14.7 with I/H/E and a 13.2 with a 80 shot. He could have seen 12's if he would have gotten a hondata and done some tunnig with the cams. He never really tuned them either, just retarded the exhaust 1 degree and left the intake at 0. For the money though turbo will be faster and you can have the boost whenever you want it. N/A is not cheap, you can get alot more power out of any FI motor for less money than a N/A motor. Also a crx with a zc willnot take a wrx, simple unless they have N20, turbo or alot of $ in the motor.

dont take advice from people who arent turboed and run NA. turbo costs more than $2500.

if you want to learn how to turbo...you really should read instead of just making a post answered about 50 times before. dont buy a fucking kit...they suck and their manifolds are for shit. not to mention some of the shit they use in the kits suck. buy it piece by piece and you will get more performance for less money

and anyone that runs a FMU is an idiot and wastes their money

225 fuel pump + 440/450cc injectors + uberdata + tuning= good fuel management.

list of all this shit you will need:

$310 Garrett Super 60 T3 Turbo
$300-500 Manifold
$200 Tial Wastegate
$100-200 BOV
$100 Chip Burner and all that stuff needed for uberdata
$100 Dyno time for tuning
$100 IC Piping
$350 FMIC
$50 Downpipe
$105 Etech cutout
$30-50 cut out and reducers
$350 Clutch
$50 Boost Gauge
$120 EGT Gauge
$30-50 Cluster for Gauges
$100 Fuel pump
$150-300 450cc Injectors
$100 for oil lines and adapters and t's

and still need vacuum lines, silcone tubing, and an air filter

Okay, first off, no one in here today him he needed an FMU. Whtteg recommended a Hondata. And FMU's are for idiots? Not always my friend, don't go bashing things and saying they are for idiots. They serve their purpose. I know a guy with a 500WHP LS/Vtec turbo. He did this several years ago, it's still running. He runs a Federal-Mogul stand alone FMU, same as Papadankis and Kubo ran on their hondas. He put out so much HP, he needed to make sure all the fuel was being delivered to aviod staving the turbo. The injectors, fuel pump, and that FMU. They were all part of the equation, the FMU being the brain. Beilive me, he planned that motor out very well, and he was no "idiot" for running that FMU. So don't go and call people using FMU's idiots. Like I said, they serve their purpose, and are beifital to high HP/high bosst apps. As for don't listen to people who don't have turbos. Get a life. Just because my car isn't boosted don't make me ignorant. People may not have the $$ to put a turbo on at the current moment, but that don't mean they are ignorant. Myabe their old car was turbo, now they are trying n/a. Just cuz you don't run boost at this exact moment in time don't mean you don't know about turbo's and boost. It just means, simply, you don't currently have boost, whether it's cuz of fincanes or anohter reason. Don't make assumations like that. It just makes you out to sound like the igroant one. Also, he can't get a turbo for $2500 are you crazy? He can put his own kit toghter for $2500, so where you got that idea I do not know. My opinion, he should build his own kit. It will cost less, and He'll get way more bang for his buck. But if he doesn't want to put his own toghter, that doesn't make him an idiot for buying a pre-made kit. Just because it's not the choice we would make doesn't make it wrong for him to do.

Okay, first off, no one in here today him he needed an FMU. Whtteg recommended a Hondata. And FMU's are for idiots? Not always my friend, don't go bashing things and saying they are for idiots. They serve their purpose. I know a guy with a 500WHP LS/Vtec turbo. He did this several years ago, it's still running. He runs a Federal-Mogul stand alone FMU, same as Papadankis and Kubo ran on their hondas. He put out so much HP, he needed to make sure all the fuel was being delivered to aviod staving the turbo. The injectors, fuel pump, and that FMU. They were all part of the equation, the FMU being the brain. Beilive me, he planned that motor out very well, and he was no "idiot" for running that FMU. So don't go and call people using FMU's idiots. Like I said, they serve their purpose, and are beifital to high HP/high bosst apps. As for don't listen to people who don't have turbos. Get a life. Just because my car isn't boosted don't make me ignorant. People may not have the $$ to put a turbo on at the current moment, but that don't mean they are ignorant. Myabe their old car was turbo, now they are trying n/a. Just cuz you don't run boost at this exact moment in time don't mean you don't know about turbo's and boost. It just means, simply, you don't currently have boost, whether it's cuz of fincanes or anohter reason. Don't make assumations like that. It just makes you out to sound like the igroant one. Also, he can't get a turbo for $2500 are you crazy? He can put his own kit toghter for $2500, so where you got that idea I do not know. My opinion, he should build his own kit. It will cost less, and He'll get way more bang for his buck. But if he doesn't want to put his own toghter, that doesn't make him an idiot for buying a pre-made kit. Just because it's not the choice we would make doesn't make it wrong for him to do.

come on u guys, can we all get along? i think all u guys have some good pointers so lets not look at the little bad details as an excuse to go bitch at each other. i do see what both billabong and eckoman is saying, and what i notice is the issue was going off topic little bit.

the topic was to get simpleazn's gsr to smoke sti's and stangs. what billabong is trying to point out is that the fmu is useless because the gsr doesn't need it. unless of course he's trying to achieve 500+ hp then thats a different story.

as far as trying to beat the sti, ur gonna need more then a regular turbo kit. like some of u guys know the gsr's safest boost is at 6 psi, while 8 psi on the other hand is risking it. with most kits, you'll be able to get about maybe 60-80 hp at 6 psi, add this sum to the stock power from the gsr and that will be around 260 hp. this is still short from the 300 hp if ur refering to the new sti, so the gsr might hang with it cause of the weight difference. my point, if u want to beat one, your gonna need to work on the internals to crank higher boost. these results are average for a regular kit and it could be different for a custom made kit.

now im not an expert on turbos but this should give a generalize description of whats gonna be needed to take on the subaru.

lastly, to be truthful i too would rather listen to someone who have a turbo kit for advice, who wouldn't. now their might be some guys with some knowledge on the subject like me for instance, but the best advice comes from people who actually installed a kit themselves. btw, speaking of people who have install turbo kits b4, hopefully there are some in here so they can help me with mine just in case i run into a problem.

come on u guys, can we all get along? i think all u guys have some good pointers so lets not look at the little bad details as an excuse to go bitch at each other. i do see what both billabong and eckoman is saying, and what i notice is the issue was going off topic little bit.

the topic was to get simpleazn's gsr to smoke sti's and stangs. what billabong is trying to point out is that the fmu is useless because the gsr doesn't need it. unless of course he's trying to achieve 500+ hp then thats a different story.

as far as trying to beat the sti, ur gonna need more then a regular turbo kit. like some of u guys know the gsr's safest boost is at 6 psi, while 8 psi on the other hand is risking it. with most kits, you'll be able to get about maybe 60-80 hp at 6 psi, add this sum to the stock power from the gsr and that will be around 260 hp. this is still short from the 300 hp if ur refering to the new sti, so the gsr might hang with it cause of the weight difference. my point, if u want to beat one, your gonna need to work on the internals to crank higher boost. these results are average for a regular kit and it could be different for a custom made kit.

now im not an expert on turbos but this should give a generalize description of whats gonna be needed to take on the subaru.

lastly, to be truthful i too would rather listen to someone who have a turbo kit for advice, who wouldn't. now their might be some guys with some knowledge on the subject like me for instance, but the best advice comes from people who actually installed a kit themselves. btw, speaking of people who have install turbo kits b4, hopefully there are some in here so they can help me with mine just in case i run into a problem.

What billabong was tring to say about the FMU was that they suck!! It is a stupid way of suppling the extra fuel that is needed. All a FMU does is up the fuel pressure x amount of psi to each psi of boost. It does nothing with the duty cycle of the injectors. Increseing the fuel pressure is the wrong way of suppling the fuel you need to get larger injectors and change the duty cycle so that they stay opened longer to supply the extra fuel.

Hmm I seem to know what a FMU does and you may not judging by your comment about it, And I do not currently have a boosted car, so just because some ppl don't drive boosted cars does not mean they don't know what they are talking about. :2cents:

thanks for trying to stay on topic about beating the sti, so safety at 6psi aint gonna cut it huh? hmm so how much boost am i looking at to beat it, 12? 12psi will put me over 300whp? but isnt that a whole bunch of lag? what rpm am i gonna feel the big kick at?

What billabong was tring to say about the FMU was that they suck!! It is a stupid way of suppling the extra fuel that is needed. All a FMU does is up the fuel pressure x amount of psi to each psi of boost. It does nothing with the duty cycle of the injectors. Increseing the fuel pressure is the wrong way of suppling the fuel you need to get larger injectors and change the duty cycle so that they stay opened longer to supply the extra fuel.

Hmm I seem to know what a FMU does and you may not judging by your comment about it, And I do not currently have a boosted car, so just because some ppl don't drive boosted cars does not mean they don't know what they are talking about. :2cents:

dude squash the shit, im not here to argue about some dumb off the topic issue concerning an fmu. what i was doing was summarizing everything to 1-2 sentences so it was short and clear as possible then returning to what was important. the best person to ask what billabong was trying to say would be billabong himself. im not here at this site for the sole porpose of having flame wars, im here to get help and help whenever i can.

now going back to simpleazn, i ask this guy with a 93 gsr turbo when he feels the power? he said it kicks in at around 4500 rpm. whats cool too he said is that when on the freeway and wants to push it he doesn't have to downshift at all so thats awesome. i got a deal for u, since your intererested in kicking the sti's butt. the guy with 93 gsr is selling his turbo so if your interested let me know. he said its not a direct bolt on since it fit all integra's except 1st gen, so there gonna be a little work trying to install it. the good thing is with your year u can keep the a/c. here's what i know so far on the turbo he selling:

rev hard t3/t04e hybrid turbo
stage 2 turbo kit (120hp @7 psi)
less than 2000 miles driven /w turbo
basically brand new, he got it for almost 3 g's
willing to sell for a reasonable price, and yes he lives in the bay area

so this isn't the regular kit u see on sale via internet, it's better. now heres the down side. to get the most power from the turbo u have get it dynoed and tuned and this kit supposedly won't pass smog cause of the higher hp and tq. the guy's suggestion: when it comes time to smog replace the intercooler pipe that has the bov with a plain pipe and get the car tuned. after these two steps he said the car should easily pass.
i might be interested in getting it myself but i haven't fully prepared my car for the setup yet. also, i would rather have a new kit to make sure nothing was worn out, but again it only has only 2000 on it.

he's trying to sell it cause he's not interested in drivng fast anymore. at the same time he just bought a new lexus is300, u know the altezza and is looking for a house. to sum it up, racing is getting old for him. if anyone is interested let me know.

oh another thing, he set the turbo at 8 psi and said the car runs fine even though it has 150000 miles. the guy was even thinking of pushing it even higher so that was some interesting info.

thanks for trying to stay on topic about beating the sti, so safety at 6psi aint gonna cut it huh? hmm so how much boost am i looking at to beat it, 12? 12psi will put me over 300whp? but isnt that a whole bunch of lag? what rpm am i gonna feel the big kick at?

Okay, I'll take this since mister "please say on topic didn't, and went off topic himself." Jeez...Okay, 12psi should do around 300, that'll do it, but your gonna have to rebuild the internals of the GSR to get there (unless you wanna fry the motor). As for lag, that depends on the turbo itself. Whats the a/r housing size, etc. Some turbos that will produce 300whp will spool faster than others. Best advice is do your homework, some of the newer turbo designs spool much faster than some of the older ones. Yes, you'll have more lag than with oly 6psi, but you can minamize this by choosing the correct turbo. Remember, NOT ALL TURBOCHARGERS ARE CREATED EQAUL. Some will produce more lag at a give psi/hp level than others. Do your homewrk, and you will find one that suits you well.

Also, he can't get a turbo for $2500 are you crazy?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2436382874&category=33742

Also, he can't get a turbo for $2500 are you crazy?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2436382874&category=33742


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2436669528&category=33742

Gsr have to high of a combustion ratio there like 10:1 making them horriable to put a turbo in them. Ill tell ya my friend bought a gsr and i bought a rs he got a exhaust and a cold air intake new spark plugs and injectors, anyways he thought he was hot shit with the gsr cause it gives u boost at 5000rpm off a smaller cam gear, hes barly hittin 200 hp but hardly a upgrade. The rs i bought was stock 140 hp and i did everything he did plus i put in a skunk2 intake manifold and a drag turbo / intercooler my car hits around 280 hp its amazing ho much i spank the shit out of the big gsr. My point is u might of payed more for the gsr but u lost in the long run with the hp, the only thing i could say is try a small turbo and like 8 or 9 psi then hook up a co2 spray into the intake manifold and u could proubley be able to hit around 250 or so its all up to how much u want to spend or blow on ur car, me its worth seein my friend try to beat me each time with the same outcome everytime...

To the guy who started this thread (I forgot your SN), excatly how much money are you willing to spend on a turbo and related engine build, in your effprt to beat the STI. Yes, the LS has a more sturdy block that can handle more boos;, yes, it has lower c/r pistons. As you stated in your first post, these are a few of the reasons the LS is a better suited motor to boost. However, you CAN boost a GSR, and to above 8 psi, you'll just have to do engine work. Any motor can be boosted, some like the LS, are just better suited for boost in relative stock condition than others. This is due to the stock internals. First, you'll want to put in some low c/r pistions. If your looking to boost the motor into the stratosphere, 8.8:1 is nice. Also (very important), close the deck, plain and simple. That will keep the cylinder walls from moving (and cracking) under high boost. Also, stronger rods are also good to do while your in there. My point is, since you already have the GSR and don't wanna dump it for the LS, don't worry. Build up the GSR internals to suit the desired boost level you have. Like I said, close the deck, low c/r pistons and stronger rods are a good start towards a motor that can handle higher boost. There's more you can do, but right there, that will help out signifcantly. Good Luck.

if i went the turbo route, i wouldnt really want to spend more than say $2200 and i would want an intercooler with that. that amount of money is kind of hard for me to come by too so i doubt upgrading the internals is an option. beating the sti on a limited budget doesnt seem too realistic for me anymore, i can boost the gsr but without the internals i have to stay below 8psi to be safe. and thatll never beat an sti i assume. ive also been seeing a lot of people get pulled over at the weekend runs down in montague where i go, so im starting to consider getting the greddy turbo kit to stay street legal, i know that the greddy kit is the worst kit out there in terms of power but it would suck to spend money on a nice turbo then have to take it off because of the cops. but since i dont plan to upgrade the internals, the small turbo and low boost would work out well right?

currently my car is basically stock, injen cold air intake is about the only engine mod i have. i was considering just getting a dc header and rsr catback exhaust for now til i can better afford turbo later. ive been reading a lot that says nitrous is a cheap and fast upgrade, whtteg , i think i read some of ur post and u suggest wet system as opposed to dry. i almost bought a venom or zex kit forgot which one but i read that they blow the engine in a year. so if i decided on nitrous a single fogger wet system is best? i/h/e and nitrous will at least keep up with an sti right? also if i got the header, whats better for power, ceramic or stainless? ive heard that although the stainless looks better, it has more heat which is bad for power, its also more expensive, any info helps a lot, thanks.

Well I do like the wet kits better because there is less chance of a lean mixture which will cause serious damage to the engine. Now for your car i would suggest a single nossle fogger if you plan on staing below 75-80 hp and direct port if you plan on 75-100 and if you want bigger and badder then NOS makes a plate kit for the B18C1 I think you can jet it down to 80 hp but it will go to around 200hp or so. But it being a dstock motor i would stay under 80. The key to a successful nitrous experience is tunning and self control. You need to learn how to tune your nitrous system, ie: reading plugs, adjusting fuel pressure, adjusting jets etc. And self control is not using it constantly, you need to use it for no linger than 15-20 secs, And believe me in 17 secs i can smoke past 120mph easily so ther is no reason for any longer. Also you need to give the motor time to cool down a bit after useing the N20, don't turn the motor off just drive it around or let it idle for a few mins, this will help cool it down, b/c nitrous causes alot more heat in the cylinders, and this is transvered to the coolant etc. Also change your oil regularly, the extra heat will speed the oil break down up.

how does this look?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&item=2442573532

either i might start slowly piecing together a custom kit or buy a used greddy kit to stay street legal. ive seen them go for about $1500 with intercooler, thats a pretty good deal right? in california, if you get pulled over with illegal parts, you have to take it off and go to the referee right? anybody know how much they fine you? and if you put it back on and get caught again, does the fine go up? ive read that a lot of people w/ drag kits are putting down like 270whp etc, thats enough to beat an sti right? but what about the street legality, isnt it kind of risky?

oh yeah, another issue, with a turbo, will 91 octane gas be enough? california used to have 92 but i dont know what really happened to that. or am i going to have to constantly stock up on octane boosters and spend $40 a tank from now on?

I would personally rather peicer toghter my own kit than buy a used greddy kit, but since you are in cali and are worried about being carb expempt, that could prove a pain in the rear to do. If you get a used Greddy Kit, I would think you could spent the extra $$ you'd have spent building your own kit to get new rods and pistons, new injectors, and turn up the boost a bit You can pump out 270hp on the greddy kit if you turn up the boost. And I would think that if you are a good driver, 270WHP would take out an STI. The greddy kit isn't the best one on the market, but if you are really getting everything you need in good condtion, plus the intercooler, for $1500, thats not a bad deal. I am still a fan of peicing toghter your own kit. Now, as to whether you can do that and stay carb exempt in cali (ypu are in cali, correct?) is a different story, lol. I am not 100% sure on that part. Also, at like 8-12psi you'd be running, the pump gas would be fine I would think. Just make sure to install and keep an eye on your gauges. They'll let you know what is going on under the hood.

I am actually interested in making my own kit like the post above just said. I found some instructions on how to do that with a T3 turbo but this would be the first time for me. Are these some good instructions?

http://www.cse.uconn.edu/~yelevich/turbo/turbo.html

Please let me know.
Thanks

oh yeah, another issue, with a turbo, will 91 octane gas be enough? california used to have 92 but i dont know what really happened to that. or am i going to have to constantly stock up on octane boosters and spend $40 a tank from now on?

SMC makes a reall good alcohol kit for forced induction cars. That is how I run 24 PSI on 92 octane with no pre-deationation. If your are boosting a car the number one thing to look out for is spark knock. It does not matter how built or not built your engine is spark knock under boost will snap everyting. Make shure you have a knock gauge

you say that you want to smoke Subaru STI's and Ford Stangs, good job on what ever performance parts that you would need to beat em'. :lol:

is the link that hybrid180 provided accurate for building a turbo? it sounds close enough, it kind of encourages me to build my own kit. so would buying and making my own piping from home depot be good enough to handle a turbo? arent those pipes kind of thin and will heat up really fast? im worried that the underhood temps created by the turbo will start to melt hoses and get to gaskets/seals etc... will spraying it with some heat paint or something help?
on a manifold/downpipe question, is that ssautochrome guy on ebay selling good stuff? he has a manifold and downpipe going for about $250 shipped. seems like a 'decent' deal if i dont want to wait around because hes constantly selling it.

also, for a front mount intercooler, will driving in the rain cause harm? does an intercooler suck up water? im not sure how intercoolers work. thanks for all the posts/replies guys, im sure not too many of us can afford sti's and would love to make them cry

theres a guy on ebay selling intercooled charge pipes based off of the drag piping, he said that its 14gauge oppposed to drags 24 gauge thickness and that its even better fitment than the drag pipes, is about $200 a good price for charge pipes? or should i just home depot and take a couple hours cutting and fitting pieces together?

also is a vafc a good way of tunin the turbo? ive heard a guy was using a vafc instead of a blue box on his greddy kit. off the top of my head im going to go for the following:

manifold
downpipe
t3 maybe t3/4 turbo
piping
wastegate 7psi spring for stock internals
bov
oil lines
intercooler


the wastegate is whats going to save me from overboosting right? but what saves me from running too lean or rich? if its too little or too much fuel then my engine will get hurt right? how does that happen? anybody who knows the answers i appreciate it

the wastegate is whats going to save me from overboosting right? but what saves me from running too lean or rich? if its too little or too much fuel then my engine will get hurt right? how does that happen? anybody who knows the answers i appreciate it

Hondata

that ssautochrome guy sells crap dont mess with him that manifold will crack in a heartbeat

as for the intercooler piping i dont know i think you can buy a charge pipe from rev hard for like $140 but you could go to home depot to get the piping

as for tuning you can get a hondata and get it tuned and you will be set that is a really good product

as for the intercooler try not to get one to big so that it does this
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/501/86285103_0321-med.JPG

yes the intercooler can suck in water if it is a really heavy ran in which i would not suggest driving in it but if it is not a really heavy ran then you should be fine

that is my car integra ls and i have arev hard turbo with a tial 7 psi spring but i am running a fmu but if yo change that to a hondata the rev hard get can be a bad kit

Huh? What do you mean the intercooler can suck in water? Putting water in between the fins increases the intercoolers efficiency. There are even kits that spray water onto the intercooler when racing.

right but those kits are like light mist but if you drive through a big puddle of water and that gets sucked up into the motor is not going to make it run better that is what i meant my bad i will make myself more clear next time

is that the intercooler that came with the rev hard kit? no right? because if it was a complete kit it should fit.

2.7"x5.5"x33" are these a good measurement for an integra? im basing it off of this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2445346706

yeah im kinda basing all my stuff off of ebay and partstrader to get the cheapest prices. if i go to home depot, what materials should i get? aluminum piping? i see some people using rubber, rubber should be cooler than aluminum right? but it will warp or stretch with the heat huh, also what is a good diameter for the piping, 2.25" ? 3"? what difference would it make? since its turbo, bigger better airflow is the right route?

also, where do i get a hondata? is it a complete ecu? or is it just a programmable compueter that i attach to my ecu? it sounds really pricey, i may just vortech fmu til i can afford one later, 12:1 good? or i think the other one is 8:1 or something

thanks for all the help guys

as for the intercooler try not to get one to big so that it does this
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/501/86285103_0321-med.JPG


don't want to make u feel any worse, but that does look kinda bad. hey the bright side, ur turbocharge and that's all that matter :icon16:. have u taken it on the dyno or track yet?

no trans nsx i dont have the turbo on yet i just have the intercooler up yeah i know it looks kind of like crap nut like you said im turbo charged so who cares

2.25" to 2.5" should be fine but dont go no bigger or smaller than that

intercooler size 29" x 8" x 3.5"but that is really big try to get
27" x 6.5" x 3" that would be a nice size and it wont look like mine

that intercooler looks like its only an inch off the gound, arent you worried about ground clearance? wont one hit tear the whole thing off as well as mess up your piping? looks dangerous

right but those kits are like light mist but if you drive through a big puddle of water and that gets sucked up into the motor is not going to make it run better that is what i meant my bad i will make myself more clear next time

Where is water going to get sucked in?
Perhaps you mean through the air filter? Which has nothing to do with the intercooler getting wet.

i have about 3 to 4 inch clearence on the intercooler

about the intercooler get water sucked in water will get suck in the pipes then up the charge pipe then in the intake right

i have about 3 to 4 inch clearence on the intercooler

about the intercooler get water sucked in water will get suck in the pipes then up the charge pipe then in the intake right

Huh?? In an air to air intercooler, the air blows over the fins, this cools the air flowing through the inside, which is CLOSED OFF...in the sense the air don't "mix witht he air"...the air blows across the fins, this cools down the hot air inside...nothing mixing toghter...they are closed off and separated in the intercooler.....now....as PWMAN said, there are kits that SPRAY WATER or Nitrious accorss the intercooler....why? It cools the fins further as it blows accross them, causing the air inside to be more dense, which = more power. The intake could suck up water...but the intake is COMPLETLY different than an intercooler, not to mention the induction of the air takes place BEFORE the air flows through the intercooler. The air goes into the turbo, it is compressed, this heats it upm it flows throught he intercooler, where air blows accross the fins and cools the air flowing seperatly inside the intercooler off...then the air leaves the intercooler for the intake manifold, to make a long sotry short. The intercooler doesnt suck up air, air flows through it inside it, and outside air blows accross it and cools it. As I said, it's closed off. Water blowing accross it WILL NOT get sucked into the intercooler. If that actually happened to you? The your intercooler is seriously fucked up and defective, so return it.

I gave up, maybe what you said Eckoman will help him understand a little.

now i know what it means i thought that the intercooler also suck up air from the outside but thanks eckoman_pdx and pwman for try to clear that up in my stupid head

whats the best material for a manifold? cast iron? tubular steel? i doubt i can afford a hondata for a while, so fmu will be enough for a while? what calibration is best for 6-8 psi of boost?

ok crap my bad, i was rereading through some of the posts in this thread and trans nsx said that for my gsr i dont need an fmu and others agreed since my car is not high boost, whtteg said i need something to change the duty cycles of the injectors not just up the fuel pressure, i understand what fmu's do, but will the turbo work alright without anything to control the fuel supply? lets say i just threw the manifold,turbo,intercooler and wastegate(most important parts) etc on, will my engine be ok?dont i need some type of ecu or vacuum control for the fuel or will using stock fuel system be fine? i read that the greddy e manage can change the duty cycle of the injectors and that cost about $2-300, would that be suffecient? hondata from a quick glance costs upwards of $700, and thats almost the cost of the whole turbo kit itself

oh yeah thanks for clearing up the intercooler question guys

I gave up, maybe what you said Eckoman will help him understand a little.

Yea, it looks like it helped him finally understand it.

now i know what it means i thought that the intercooler also suck up air from the outside but thanks eckoman_pdx and pwman for try to clear that up in my stupid head

You're Welcome.

oh yeah thanks for clearing up the intercooler question guys

You're welcome too; also, I do believe the Greddy Emanage would work fine. I believe thats what Greddy uses now in their own turbo kits (that also happen to run at a simlier level of boost as yours would), so it should be fine for yours too. You'll want something to help control the fuel supply/flow. The Greddy e-manage would work, since that's what you are asking.

i didnt even bother reading these 4 pages of commentary after i read the question. no offense to anyone but i must say that within the year ive been on here, if i had a nickel everytime someone asked a question like this, id be a f*ckin millionare.

well, this is a forum after all. people ask questions and opinions. some areas may have been covered elsewhere, but there is always some uniqueness to the threads. ive actually been learning a lot from this thread and found it to be helpful (thanks peeps), and some of my questions were brought down to specifics and couldnt be found in other places. i think the 1000+ views on this threads speaks for itself that questions like these are interesting to other people as well. itd be nice if you would share some knowledge on the subject instead of just ragging on it.

wow i can't believe this thread is still alive. i having only been glancing at the posts, but the last two caught my eye. some people might think all this info is useless crap while for others, this can be a treasure chest of knowledge. take for example my friend and i, he doesn't see why im on here im thinking probably because it doesn't interest him and theres hardly any females here. for me on the other hand, i love cars and to learn more about it's mechanics and functions is awesome. basically a place where people can share a common interest and share thier opinions, facts,and ask questions. of course there is going to be the usual heated debates that seem to go on forever but that too can be pretty interesting at times. as far females, it's not like im trying to hook up with one on the net, and neither do i care or want to and no im not gay :rofl:, i just don't see the point of trying to hook up with someone that can be 4-5 states away, again this is only my opinion.

if u like this info, read the thread call "what's the difference," which is recently new but it got old since the title wasn't really appealing. someone ask what i thought was a really good question about sequential turbo set up and i try to explain the best way i can, if u wanna add anything feel free to post, there might be something incorrect, i missed, or don't know, thanks.

well, this is a forum after all. people ask questions and opinions. some areas may have been covered elsewhere, but there is always some uniqueness to the threads. ive actually been learning a lot from this thread and found it to be helpful (thanks peeps), and some of my questions were brought down to specifics and couldnt be found in other places. i think the 1000+ views on this threads speaks for itself that questions like these are interesting to other people as well. itd be nice if you would share some knowledge on the subject instead of just ragging on it.


dude i completely understand where you are coming from as well as the guy in the last thread. but understand my point. i learned not by asking people to baby me and explain every little thing that im sure they have explained to others hundreds of times. i actually went on a forum search and learned by years of research if there is something really puzzling you or you have a specific question then by all means im willing to help. but as a slightly more knowledgeable member it gets very tedious explaining the same thing over and over. i actually left this forum because of that for a few months. ive noticed it getting slightly better but now i just feel like i need to help and educate the newbs. so by all means, from now on ask away and hope i can help with my plethora of knowledge!!

cool, ok, question, ive been looking through posts, but cant seem to find an answer.

whats the best material for the manifold? cast iron? tubular steel?

xsimpleaznx ur name looks familiar, what other sites u post at? Any football forums maybe?

cool, ok, question, ive been looking through posts, but cant seem to find an answer.

whats the best material for the manifold? cast iron? tubular steel?

well thats difficult to say because it depends on budget. got money? tubular steel is much better. dont have a lot of money? cast iron is fine.

Keep in mind that the STI is AWD, while your teg is FWD. Even if you get LSD, he's gonna smoke you from the line every time.

what... thats news to me.. hey whats ur 1/4 time with that supercharger set-up? what engine/chasis u running?

Sorry if I'm repeating things that have been posted already. I just read the initial post and didn't feel like going through 5 pages.

1. If you want some massive power, go with a T3/T4 or T3/T04E turbo. The T3/T04E is good for up to 450 horsepower I believe. I don't know how much the T3/T4 is good for.

2. Building a custom turbo kit is the only way to go. Plan on spending around $2500-3000 for everything, including tuning and misc. items here and there.

3. You want Hondata because it is the best thing for boosted Hondas. It's a reburned Honda chip and nothing will perform like a genuince Honda chip. And scrap the FMU, that's what Hondata is for. To use Hondata though, you have to have an OBD1 ECU, since you drive a 95 GSR you are set there. All you'll need is either DSM 450cc injectors or RC engineering 440cc injectors. If you go with the DSM injectors you also need the resistor pack from a 4th gen civic si/EX or CRX Si. The resistor pack will basically convert the peak and hold type DSM injectors to saturated type injectors. At 8 psi on a T3/T04E turbo, I don't think you'll be beating STi IMO, but your car can handle 10-12 psi runs occasionally if it is tuned right. That might just put you in front of an STi depending on driver and such.

BTW: the Golden Eagle oil tapper thing on the first page is a waste of money. For your oil feedline all you need to do is take out the oil sensor on the back of the block, get a T fitting that will fit it and screw the oil sensor back into it on one side and run the oil line off the other side. No point in wasting $100 on something that you can just get from a home improvement store

BTW: the Golden Eagle oil tapper thing on the first page is a waste of money. For your oil feedline all you need to do is take out the oil sensor on the back of the block, get a T fitting that will fit it and screw the oil sensor back into it on one side and run the oil line off the other side. No point in wasting $100 on something that you can just get from a home improvement store

Your right it is a waste of money but don't get one from a home improvment store. Most places don't sell the correct thread pitch, and many people make the mistake of screwing one of those in and messing up the threads which makes it hard to take out if you need to.

Tuner toys makes the correct pitch oil take off for the honda engine and it's only like $10.

http://shop.vendio.com/funinfeenix/home.html
Sometimes they don't have it in stock though.

Xsimpleaz, you should at the very least read Corky Bells" book, Maximum Boost, to learn some basics. Asking random questions is not the best way to learn. Then you can get Honda specific. I am really surprised no one has recommended you look at www.homemadeturbo.com since you are short on funds. Beating an STI is a big goal for a newb. Along with all wheel drive, which can be adjusted fore and aft bias for best traction, it also has a six speed, and Vteclike moving cam indexing. But it can be done if you go light enough.Your opponant is probably no longer running stock boost settings, either.

dont take advice from people who arent turboed and run NA. turbo costs more than $2500.

if you want to learn how to turbo...you really should read instead of just making a post answered about 50 times before. dont buy a fucking kit...they suck and their manifolds are for shit. not to mention some of the shit they use in the kits suck. buy it piece by piece and you will get more performance for less money

and anyone that runs a FMU is an idiot and wastes their money

225 fuel pump + 440/450cc injectors + uberdata + tuning= good fuel management.

list of all this shit you will need:

$310 Garrett Super 60 T3 Turbo
$300-500 Manifold
$200 Tial Wastegate
$100-200 BOV
$100 Chip Burner and all that stuff needed for uberdata
$100 Dyno time for tuning
$100 IC Piping
$350 FMIC
$50 Downpipe
$105 Etech cutout
$30-50 cut out and reducers
$350 Clutch
$50 Boost Gauge
$120 EGT Gauge
$30-50 Cluster for Gauges
$100 Fuel pump
$150-300 450cc Injectors
$100 for oil lines and adapters and t's

and still need vacuum lines, silcone tubing, and an air filter

I have a 97 integra ls. I am interested in a future custom turbo setup. I have recently found several posts for uberdata. Is this a full featured EMS/chipping? Does anyone have more information on it. Are the maps fully programmable? Also I am skeptical of adding a blockguard to my turbo setup I have heard both good and bad any ideas? I know I saw a turbo install using a blockguard in a magazine if they did it then I would think it's maybe a good idea? I am new here so I hope to make some friends I am a big car audio guy so if anyone has some questions about that feel free. my car http://www.sounddomain.com/id/icedteg

sorry to ask you this but I am a newbie..and what is 8psi or 9psi or 15psi?

sorry to ask you this but I am a newbie..and what is 8psi or 9psi or 15psi?


SHUT UP!!!!!!! :banghead:

SHUT UP!!!!!!! :banghead:

Dude relax, he's just a noob. There was a time when you didn't know what PSI was either.

what is PSI?

SHUT UP!!!!!!! :banghead:

:lol: psi stands for pound per square inch.

unusualcivic U fucking asshole, hey man just remeber, neon lighting helps you get lower quarter mile times, And they just look soo cool on a 84 civic

Okay, First off, icedteg....A block gaurd..I suppose it's better than nothing...in the sense it will help to keep the cylinder walls from moving under high boost, therefor preventing cracking...but seriously, if you wanna through High Boost at it, forget the block gaurd...my personal opinion is if you wanna throw enough boost you'll need it, your throwing enough at it that you'' be better off re-sleeving the deck with AEBS Sleeves or Darton Sleeves...they can handle up to 55psi, which you'll be no where near...so you'll be safe there....and at the lower psi levels, you don't really need it....that's my opinion, it has a purpose, and it's cheaper than re-sleeving, but you can't boost near as high...it's basically a peice of mind thing in my opnion, and I know plenty that are of the opinion that a block gaurd is a waste...I guess....how much boost do you plan to run in the first obvious question when it comes to any of this.

...and second....CrXb18c1, as tran_nsx said...PSI= Pounds per sqaure inch...this refers to the amount of air pressure inside the cyilnder above the abiment air pressure...a turbo system compresses air and shoves the comprerssed air into the cylinder.....ambient air pressure at Sea Level is 14.7 Pounds per sqaure inch...if you are running a turbo at 12 PSI....then the air pressure getting shoved into the cylinders is 12 PSI above the ambient air pressure (which is 26.7psi, or 12psi above ambeint air pressure....running a turbo at 14.7psi is also known as 2 bar, which is twice the air pressure as the typical ambeint air pressure, hence 2 bar....twice bar....1 bar being the ambeint air pressure).

You can run 14 PSI safely on stock sleeves, 18 PSI with block guard.

read in another post that you can't save a/c with a t3 setup, is this true?

ambient air pressure at Sea Level is 14.7 Pounds per sqaure inch...if you are running a turbo at 12 PSI....then the air pressure getting shoved into the cylinders is 12 PSI above the ambient air pressure (which is 26.7psi, or 12psi above ambeint air pressure....running a turbo at 14.7psi is also known as 2 bar, which is twice the air pressure as the typical ambeint air pressure, hence 2 bar....twice bar....1 bar being the ambeint air pressure).

In my area 1 bar is exactly 15 PSI, easy math for me!

In my area 1 bar is exactly 15 PSI, easy math for me!

Yes, that definatly would make the math a bit easier, lol.

i use my EG smoke WRXs everyday.

Bar is short for barometric pressure, which is 14.7 at sea level at 32 degrees F. One bar is twice atmospheric pressure, or 14.7 psi above bar. Two bar would be 29.4 psi. Psi is so much easier. Go with it.
I can't believe this post is still going in the top ten. It won't die.
If you want to run high boost, why don't you just go with a make/model/engine that can handle it without splitting open? Seems like a lot of unneccesary expense.
:)

well somewhere in the beginning of the thread i said that i wanted to make use of my GSR engine since i already had it. but through some learning, if you really want to go high high boost, it doesnt really matter what engine you have because you would have to build up the block regardless. anyways, yeah this thread seems to be pretty popular i guess, but i personally havent been posting in it too much lately because im waiting on my custom turbo kit to arrive and will ask questions if i run into problems, im thinking i can handle most of the issues i had in the beginning now. thanks all. (most issues im worried about are of course fuel management, wondering how my idle will turn out with the fmu setup until i can afford hondata or maybe vafc for temp use)

Bar is short for barometric pressure, which is 14.7 at sea level at 32 degrees F. One bar is twice atmospheric pressure, or 14.7 psi above bar. Two bar would be 29.4 psi.

1 bar IS atmospheric pressure. 2 bar is twice atmospheric pressure, or 14.7 above bar at sea level.

Go look at a boost gauge on an STI or at your local speed shop. It's obvious. Bar is normal barometric pressure. One bar is plus one bar or 14.7 above atmospheric pressure.

Go look at a boost gauge on an STI or at your local speed shop. It's obvious. Bar is normal barometric pressure. One bar is plus one bar or 14.7 above atmospheric pressure.

It just means it's one bar above one bar. LOL, it's hard to explain. 1 bar just refers to 14.7 PSI.
Just trust me, I used think the same thing. Then I found out later. I have a 87 Dodge daytona turbo car, and they make a 3 bar MP sensor for it. And I thought, Holy crap 3 bar thats like 45 PSI. But it's only 30. I also know boost cutout in my daytona is 14.7 PSI. It has a 2 bar MAP sensor.

Now your agreeing with what I've said from the beginning and contradicting your last two posts and you say "trust me"? I'm oughta here.

How did I do that?

Let me shorten it up then.
You are saying 1 bar is 14.7 above atmospheric pressure, I am saying 1 bar IS atmosperic pressure. Correct?

Somebody please back me up here?

barometric pressure is 14.7psi which can also be referred to as 1 bar

2 bars= 14.7psi +1 bar

3 bars= 29.4psi +1 bar

1 bar isn't added since this is the atmospheric air

Thank you Trans_NSX.
Now he's probably too much of an ass to come back and admit he was wrong. Oh well, I knew I was right. And I don't think I condradicted myself, did I? I don't see it. He must be a legend in his own mind.

Thank you Trans_NSX.
Now he's probably too much of an ass to come back and admit he was wrong. Oh well, I knew I was right. And I don't think I condradicted myself, did I? I don't see it. He must be a legend in his own mind.

your welcome.

to outsidebox, it can be very confusing so i don't blame u, but if your man enough, then just apologize and let bye gones be bye gones. deal?

oh and i just want to say 1 bar isn't always 14.7psi since this can change due to difference in altitude, but u guys know that.

I agree, it is confusing. Like I said, I used to think the same thing until I got my Daytona and started looking at mods for it.

TRANS_NSX-Thanks again, yeah not always 14.7 PSI. Like I said before 1 bar in my area is exactly 15 PSI.

I only look in here about once a month, but I had to see what happened. I'll give it one more shot, in the simplest terms I can. First of all,
Bar..... and 1 bar....are not the same.
If you look at a boost gauge when an engine is not running it reads 0 or zero. It is a mechanical gauge, so nothing needs to be running or turned on. Zero is what the automotive industry has chosen to designate as barometric pressure on gauges. Bar is short for barometric pressure and is simply ...bar. Here is why they choose to call bar zero.
As you start an engine, the boost gauge, if you have a quality one, goes to negative bar readings, because at idle, it is showing vacuum. Most engine idle at about -.8 bar, or negative point eight. If the industry chose to call atmospheric pressure 14.7 the way earth scientists do, they would not be able to read vacuum when the engine is not under boost. When you accelerate and start to go into positve boost situations from the turbocharger, the gauge will pass zero, (atmospheric pressure) and read positive bar readings like +.8 or +1.
Plus 1 is one bar..... It is 14.7 above atmospheric pressure, which is always read as 0 (zero) on a gauge. As an example,
I am a Subaru mechanic, and a few days ago I was driving one of the new turbo Forester. It is rated to make 8 pounds boost. On my test drive, it's gauge showed a max of .5 bar. Or positive half a bar. That would be about 8 pounds boost. A few days before that, I was driving a new STI. It is rated at 15 pounds boost. On the test drive it showed 1 bar as it's maximum. We do this to make sure the wastegate is operating correctly.
So that is as simple as I can explain it to you. It would be a good idea for you to take my earlier suggestion and go look at a boost gauge at the speed shop that reads in bar. If it reads zero (it may be reading a negative number if it is vacuum packaged) then I am right, and you are wrong. Then go to a mirror and ask, "who really is the ass here?"
Boost gauges are much more useful when they read in inches of vacuum and pounds of boost. The increments of measure are smaller so they can be used for diagnosis and engine monitoring to a more exact degree. Cheers, and have a good year.

You just don't know how to read a bar boost gauge. :disappoin

You are still wrong...ass :lol2:

here is a link that talks a little about using bars as boost. here is the link:

http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/10vgauge.html

maybe this will help.

People, this thread is long enough. I mean, damn! if you got questions, start a new thread.

here is a link that talks a little about using bars as boost. here is the link:

http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/10vgauge.html

maybe this will help.

Dont worry, now that he has been proven wrong he's too chickenshit to post back and admit it.

Dont worry, now that he has been proven wrong he's too chickenshit to post back and admit it.

in a way he can be right if we are measuring boost. since a boost gauge measures psi's over bar, then this would consider +bar. so in other words, a 3bar map sensor is including bar +2 bar of boost making it 29.4 psi whereas a boost gauge reading 2bar is also the same 29.4 psi. confusing stuff, hopefully u get it :icon16:

in a way he can be right if we are measuring boost. since a boost gauge measures psi's over bar, then this would consider +bar. so in other words, a 3bar map sensor is including bar +2 bar of boost making it 29.4 psi whereas a boost gauge reading 2bar is also the same 29.4 psi. confusing stuff, hopefully u get it :icon16:

Thats what I was trying to say earlier, like I said hard to explain. It's 2 bar past 1 bar. Thats how you read a bar gauge. That wouldn't make hime right, because he is still saying 1 bar is 29.4 PSI(atmosphere+14.7).

I agree, it is confusing. Like I said, I used to think the same thing until I got my Daytona and started looking at mods for it.

TRANS_NSX-Thanks again, yeah not always 14.7 PSI. Like I said before 1 bar in my area is exactly 15 PSI.

If you don't mind me asking where do you live (state and location ie central, southren, northern etc.) and how would I go about finding out what PSI=1bar. Thanks

Andy

If you don't mind me asking where do you live (state and location ie central, southren, northern etc.) and how would I go about finding out what PSI=1bar. Thanks

Andy

South Central Pennsylvania.
My Brother works for Cleveland Bros INC(Caterpillar) on tractor trailors, and he works with turbos all the time. I'm not sure how he found out that it is 15 PSI for 1 bar, I'm sure they have some kind of equipment.

turbo kits are good because they come with everything and you can aways upgrade later to a custom turbo.

turbo kits are good because they come with everything and you can aways upgrade later to a custom turbo.

Yea and replace almost everything that came with the kit :rolleyes: Go custom from the start or end up spending more money by upgrading a pre-built kit. My :2cents:


And guys about the bar topic, man I think it would just be easier to refer to it as PSI. :p Sorry guys just ha to throw that in there. :)

South Central Pennsylvania.
My Brother works for Cleveland Bros INC(Caterpillar) on tractor trailors, and he works with turbos all the time. I'm not sure how he found out that it is 15 PSI for 1 bar, I'm sure they have some kind of equipment.


cool I work for Cat too. Im at the proving grounds in Peoria.... I do alot of work with intercoolers and such other stuff.

well i finally got the turbo kit i bought off of ebay, but i changed my mind and decided to sell it back out cuz i started to buy better parts to piece together a better kit. (got a revhard manifold :grinno: ) anyways, question, how big are t3 turbos? the turbo that came with the kit i bought, the guy said it was a t3, but that thing is so small.. like the size of a gamecube. but i lined it up to my rev hard manifold and the bolt holes fit, so it should be t3 right? anybody help with this? i dont want to get ripped off in the future(if not now) how big are t3s?

AiResearch model TB3043

t3 are kind of small compared to the t3/t4's but i have a t3/t04e and it is great the pick up is good no wait it is great and i only have a DOHC so on a Vtec it will probably awesome. that is what i suggest that you get. so you are going to get a custom one instead? get a walbro 255 fuel pump and hondata if you have the money you will not be dissappointed

yeah the t3/t04e is probably the best if not the best for street applications.

hm, sorry, think you misunderstood my question. im actually trying to figure out the actual physical size of the turbo. like i said the supposed t3 i got is about the size of a nintendo gamecube. is that about right? i dont have much hands on experience but in my head i imagined it would be the size of say a little bit smaller than a basketball.

hm, sorry, think you misunderstood my question. im actually trying to figure out the actual physical size of the turbo. like i said the supposed t3 i got is about the size of a nintendo gamecube. is that about right? i dont have much hands on experience but in my head i imagined it would be the size of say a little bit smaller than a basketball.

A basketball???? damn....

from what t3 i have seen it sounds right cause mine is a little bigger than a gamecube cause of the t04e side

Hey, PWMAN...Sorry I didn't get in here sooner to back you up. A back Winter Storm shot up here and dumped link 6-8 inchs of snow, 2-4 inchs of ice via freezing rain, temp was at like around 18-22 as a high and 12-16 as a low for almost 10 days. The east end of the metro area had some winds sustanted at 45mph with gusts upwards of 65-70+mph. The windchill was down to damn near 0 degrees farinheit. And all that damn ice made it impossible to drive and knocked out power for a bit. I mean, it sucked. They actaully shut down Interstate-84 for like a 50 mile stretch out of portland. Anyways, the weather basically limited my net, so I wasn't able to get onto here. You know I would have had your back about that guy if I had net access the last 10 days. Sorry I couldn't be here to get your back with this, since I suppose it was my answer to a post a long time ago that started the whole damn thing, lol. BTW, you made perfect sense to me, I think you explained it all clear. If he couldn't figure out what you, and then later trans_nsx also, where saying, then well...I don't know, because you all explained and worded it in a manner I would of considered clear as day. You are correct though, it is a confusing concept to grasp at first. I don't know, maybe it's the fact I already understood the concept, but your wording of "it's 2 bar past 1 bar" and then your and trans_nsx's subsqent explanations made perfect sense to me.

Hey, PWMAN...Sorry I didn't get in here sooner to back you up. A back Winter Storm shot up here and dumped link 6-8 inchs of snow, 2-4 inchs of ice via freezing rain, temp was at like around 18-22 as a high and 12-16 as a low for almost 10 days. The east end of the metro area had some winds sustanted at 45mph with gusts upwards of 65-70+mph. The windchill was down to damn near 0 degrees farinheit. And all that damn ice made it impossible to drive and knocked out power for a bit. I mean, it sucked. They actaully shut down Interstate-84 for like a 50 mile stretch out of portland. Anyways, the weather basically limited my net, so I wasn't able to get onto here. You know I would have had your back about that guy if I had net access the last 10 days. Sorry I couldn't be here to get your back with this, since I suppose it was my answer to a post a long time ago that started the whole damn thing, lol. BTW, you made perfect sense to me, I think you explained it all clear. If he couldn't figure out what you, and then later trans_nsx also, where saying, then well...I don't know, because you all explained and worded it in a manner I would of considered clear as day. You are correct though, it is a confusing concept to grasp at first. I don't know, maybe it's the fact I already understood the concept, but your wording of "it's 2 bar past 1 bar" and then your and trans_nsx's subsqent explanations made perfect sense to me.

excuses are like a$$holes... they both fu*ken stink.

j/k :icon16: , i haven't used that phrase in while. isn't it fuuny?

excuses are like a$$holes... they both fu*ken stink.

j/k :icon16: , i haven't used that phrase in while. isn't it fuuny?

I've heard that one before. It does have it's elements of humor, lol. I suppose it was a prime set-up to use it, lol. Seriously though that Artic winter storm up here was Bad. I am glad it's over and thigns are returning to normal. Everone was getting massive cabin fever. Portland International Airport canceled like All There Flights for almost 4 days and shut down the airport basically, stranding everyone. Amtrack shut down for a few days, City Lightrail was off like for like 2 or 3 days. A nearly 50 mile stretch of Interstate-84 was shut down for almost 3 days, stranding people stuck on either side, City Hall was clsing its dorrs for several days. The temps when in the teens. At one point it was like 11 degrees at near my house, not to mention the damn near zero windchill...on top of everything I mentioned in my last post...oh, and in the middle of all this...My father, had to get rushed to the Hospital at like 1 or 2 AM near years day night. He had to have emergancy surgury to remove his gaul bladder. So yea, not a very fun christmas vacation. On a positve note, at least the College term is now starting a week late due to the Storm, lol.

Thanks eckoman. I was trying my hardest but some people you just can't help. :banghead:

Thanks eckoman. I was trying my hardest but some people you just can't help. :banghead:

I fully understand...I know what you mean. That comment reminds me of this newer member who turns everything into an insult about people mom's, then he starts bashing the mod's saying they are getting on him for no reason and are asses....Perfect example of this....there's no way to help the poor guy.

hey xsimpleaznx or any body reading this that is looking into getting a turbo on there car i recommend that you go ahead and get a oil catch can cause i had a problem with blow by gases and it got oil all over the back of the motor. so i suggest buying one or making one

so ive been looking around for a turbo, but i remember i read in a post somewhere that a t3 will not clear a/c p/s. is that true? if so, should i look in to a t28 etc turbo instead? i want to keep a/c..

i have a t3/t4 and i have ac and p/s still i think it all depends on the manifold you get

I have a 95 Integra GSR. In october i put in a t3/4 hybrid turbocharger with intercooler, greddy bov, wastegate, and a few other things..in total i spent about $5000 including labor and dyno time. I suggest you get your work done at a professional shop, because any wrong setup could help to blow your turbo and engine. After all that, my car made 239 whp and 179 torque on 6 psi. Since then ive spent another $1000 on a head gasket and cam gears. My car hasnt been on the dyno again, but is set at 9 psi now. I warn you, if you plan on putting a turbo on your car, be prepared to spend lots more money on your car. Having that much HP is going to wear down your clutch and tires quick. But to give you an idea of how quick your car can be, i havent taken mine to the track yet, but i have taken out a few Evo VIII's, which is comparable to an STI. If your willing to drop the money, go for it, and you will take out the STI. Good Luck

in essence, yes i am building a poor mans turbo, but i think im going to get it right. so far i only have a rev hard manifold but i hear it is one of the best (wastegate on 2 runners instead of just 1 like on a drag manifold) anyways,
$5000 is a lot, im guessing a lot of that money was spent on installation labor and dyno time. but since i am a poor mans turbo, i will most likely be going fmu + a vafc (afc hack?) so i wouldnt even be able to tune that much correct? for those people out there with a bolt on kit, they usually come with an fmu type system, how do u tune those? since all it is is a fuel pressure riser basically right? so if its a set constant, wouldnt dyno time be a waste since u cant really adjust anything?
also, since a stock gsr can only handle about 6psi safely, wouldn't any size turbo be good since you cant use high psi? because oh say greddy 18g or t28, t3 t3/4 etc can handle at least 15psi correct? so if i plan on only running 6psi, it wouldnt matter too much which turbo i go with? oh yeah, any thoughts on the toyota ct26 turbo? (if i go with this, i would change the flange or something?)
thanks for all the help in this extremely long thread. but gsr's are fun whoop whoop!

well if you still plan to race a sti still then 6 psi is not going to do it but you said it is a poor mans turbo so... i still say go with a t3/t4 turbo and with the rev hard manifold you will still be able to have ac and ps if you make the right bend for the down pipe alot of people run into problems running into the ac. but if you get a rev hard down pipe it will be fine. you can get the vafc tuned too at the dyno so no it would not be a waste of time.

but if you are going to get a vafc they are aleast 400 right plus you buy a fmu (dont know how much those are) why not just go ahead and buy a hondata s200 with boost it is only 495 so i think you might want to look into that. and you will be able to tune alittle higher than 6 psi with this too and still have reliablity.

now i have a question because hes only going with low boost any way wont he loose most if not all lag if he uses a straight t3 with low a/r and trim still same psi but much faster spool times right? thats wat i though and thats wat im lookin for for my accord and by the way is it safe to boost at 165K on motor if i use say 6-8 psi and all the right fuel add-ons thanx

well 156k i had 124k and i fried my piston rings with a rev hard turbo kit.

eeewwww really how much psi u runnin? u still runnin the same stuff now? u rebuild it allready? im thinkin of goin to the junk yard pickin up one of these suckas and goin all out. cuz there a dime a dozen nobody around here buys up the f22b2's they all get the prelude h22's. so im like cool i can get a block head intake/ exhaust manifold basically everthing but ecm and tranny for like maybe 5-700 bux so im think about doin that but boostin this one up first just to see wat itll do watcha think anybody got any better ideas besides the whole h22 swap i just wanna keep her "Stock" with boost this way i can use stock tranny 5 speed and axles(ona BUGET) thanx

hey everyone, i just want to make a suggestion. if u guys are piecing up your own kit or how simpleazn says it, "a poor man's turbo," then i highly reccomend u stay away from used turbos, especially ones from the junkyard. this is the most vital part of the kit and by installing a used turbo, u don't really know how much wear its been through. now you can be jeapardizing both your p.o.s. turbo and your engine.

|ACCORDLX|']eeewwww really how much psi u runnin? u still runnin the same stuff now? u rebuild it allready?

i am running 7 psi and i am not driving the car as of right now, so no it is not rebiult yet i am tryin to decide whether i am going to install the rings, get new rods and pistons while its opened up, or sell it

When it comes to tubro's and a higher mileage motor, it really depends on the motors condtion. If it was well kept, is in good shape, etc, basiclly it's in good condition...then you can boost it most likely. If the engine is tired, has worn rings and seals, etc...then it's not advisable. The condition does in part depend on the mileage, but it also has to do with how the motor was driven and kept up. It's impossible to tell if you can boost your motor based on that mileage with checking the condition. I'm going to guess the motor is a tired by now, and that the extra pressure of boost will kill it quicker. Of course, as I said above, I am not there to actully check and see the motor's condition, so it's really hard to tell. In general though, that's why a lot of people say stay away from boost a high mileage motor. The condition of the motor is worn, and the extra pressure can blow out the worn rings, etc.

In other words get a compression test and leak down test before add FI.

hey everyone, i just want to make a suggestion. if u guys are piecing up your own kit or how simpleazn says it, "a poor man's turbo," then i highly reccomend u stay away from used turbos, especially ones from the junkyard. this is the most vital part of the kit and by installing a used turbo, u don't really know how much wear its been through. now you can be jeapardizing both your p.o.s. turbo and your engine.

I agree. The best thing to do is to get one from the junkyard to use it for a core. Get a rebuilt turbo.

The motor is by far not tired i havent done a leak down yet or compresion test but its still very very strong. no smoke its been maintaned before i got it very very well so if the compresion test and leak down r good then go for it or still do a ring kit? i really dont want to right now it just seems like im takin sumthin that aint broke and fixin it. i say wait till it does then get the same from the bone yard,or after the turbo is in,and build the shiet outa that while im drivin around my allready boosted (as in kit allready done no worrys) car so wen i put the new one in it'll be freakin nuts. i think that sounds more fun cuz i really need to do sumthin cuz its not slow but it aint fast eighther. thanx

get a leak down and compression test and if everything is ok then go for it man.

thanx man thats just the vote of confidence i needed!!! :) and another thing while i have some intrest in my car :) umm how much can the stock 5 speed handle and how bout the cv's i mean blowin em apart on a stocker is no biggy its fixable but if they blow while racing ive heard some pretty nasty horror stories so thanx alot PEACE:)

|ACCORDLX|']thanx man thats just the vote of confidence i needed!!! :) and another thing while i have some intrest in my car :) umm how much can the stock 5 speed handle and how bout the cv's i mean blowin em apart on a stocker is no biggy its fixable but if they blow while racing ive heard some pretty nasty horror stories so thanx alot PEACE:)

Are you asking how much pwoer they can handle? Your motor can handle about 6psi on sotkc intenrals in good condition. That will be fine your axles, etc under normal condtions.Thed tranny should be fine, though a upgrading the clutch never hurts. As civic15.8 and PWMAN stated above and I eluded to, get a compression and leak down test first. If it's all good, you can boost the motor safely to about 6psi. Abuse can blow your tranny and CV boots, etc regardless. Simple solution is don't abuse them. A upgrade clutch should be fine for the tranny, though the same goes. Abuse wear's it out. I know this isn't what you wanna hear, but a lot depends to a certain extent on how you drive.

oh i deffinetly know about the abuse i just wanted to know if the hp was gunna be way to much and thanx for all the info. im doin the clutch befrore anything any way. its not totaly gone but pretty dam close. so wat clutch do u think i should get? i was think act street/strip and an aluminum flywheel or just a lightned wat u think? thanx

i have a act and it is great alittle bit more clutch pressure but act IMO is the best

thanx and how about the aluminum vers steel fly wheel wich is better obviously steel is stronger but is aluminum strong enough not to break under real serious driving gonditions. thanx guys for all your help.

|ACCORDLX|']thanx and how about the aluminum vers steel fly wheel wich is better obviously steel is stronger but is aluminum strong enough not to break under real serious driving gonditions. thanx guys for all your help.

Glad to help. Good luck with your project. I know with lightweight flywheels, lighting is good to a certain extent, but you don't want to go too light. I don't think you'll have a problem. I can't remember, and if someone knows what I am saying and I am wrong, correct me here (it's been awhile), but I think 10 or 11lbs was fine. Lighter, but not too light. I can't remember all the details though. From what you are saying you are going to do though, you'll be okay.

thanx man so ill go with a lightned steel flywheel. i thinks its a good choice,like an Xact, with a street/strip clutch. i think thats my final choise then. thanx ill let u all know how it turns out ive learn so much in like the 5 days ive been a part of this forum then the year ive owned it talkin to knuckleheads around here thanx alot lata :)

|ACCORDLX|']thanx man so ill go with a lightned steel flywheel. i thinks its a good choice,like an Xact, with a street/strip clutch. i think thats my final choise then. thanx ill let u all know how it turns out ive learn so much in like the 5 days ive been a part of this forum then the year ive owned it talkin to knuckleheads around here thanx alot lata :)

Your welcome. Keep us posted on your progress.

WELL FOUND A FREAKIN T3 its rebuildable and its only 25 bux. o yeah im good :) first step done!!

o and another thing how do i put picture in my signature or wat ever i have a good one of my car wen i first got it then ill put one up wen im done :)

not to flame on you or anything, but I have a LS right now with few mods, but I am FOR SURE going Turbo. So right now I am reading as much as i can about EVERYTHING comprised in turbos. Within a solid week of just reading reading reading reading and not posting a single thing I have learned a TON. I am using CAPS all the time because i am deadly serious. Reading is the best. I type Turbo LS and get at least 20 threads that people have written. Plus stories problems and all that. So for you xsimple .... READ! just type in "turbo GSR" in the search and just start going through one by one. If you don't understand what an FMU or Uberdata is ..again go to the search and type it up. Here are some awesome websites for you to visit. team-integra.net
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto.php (gives you how to's on a lot of stuff.

I was like you at first wanting to go kit and everything, but then i found out how relativley easy it is to set up a turbo teggy. The only thing that is professionaly done is the tuning otherwise doing it yourself probably only takes about a solid week of working at night after work and the entire weekend. Anyway I hope this helps and remember that your best friend is the search button USE IT! google is good to! Peace out man and don't forget to write back and post pics as your project comes along I kno i will.

Umm, you do realize this is about 5months old right?

:banhim:

well atleast he had something good to say people bo need to read before they post.

You guys tell people to search when they ask questions then they read an old thread and say somthing or ask a question then you say ban them....I sense contradiction...

hmmmm, this thread is pretty old. one of my first about 6 months ago. i mostly read, sometimes post. but i learned the turbo game pretty quick thats why i i let this thread die. i was planning to post in it if i ever got the turbo together, but man being poor sucks. im confident that im knowledgeable in the turbo dept to get started now but the funds are low. i have searched etc etc, and yeah ive learned A LOT. ive since switched over to hondatech and teamintegra because the knowledge over there seems a little more informative, but how surprised was i to see the GSR loser car thread at the top of the list when i looked here! haha, cool, if i ever get money together to start the project ill update, but til then im still mostly lookin at the forums hopin to learn something new. later

oh yeah, this thread must be popular since its one of the most viewed 400+ and replied to 120+ thread in the fi section, haha, also somebody bringing it back after 6months

yeah this thread is pretty dam old, on the positive side, atleast theres a lot of really good info here.

heres another if people still need more.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=239483

i have read many many af threads about the turbo route, and i know some of these questions have been asked before but there were some little details that i wanted to make sure exactly. of course every opinion has been ls turbo over gsr, but the sound of a nice bov just seduces me and i always look up to see it coming from a subaru or some other stock turbo car. i know there are tons of turbo honda/acuras out there but ive rarely ever seen them out on the streets of the bay area. anyways, my main concern was pricing, just really wanted to know how much people were spending out there. a lot of people say custom turbo is best perfromance, or a drag kit to make it easy and good enough power. nobody seems to support the greddy kit. yeah and it would be nice to smoke an sti and spend about 18k less than they did. will the t3/to4 turbo do the job? at 6-8psi? because any turbo could smoke somebody if theyre pushing a lot of pounds right? i hear other forums saying their going for 15-24psi on their honda, those gotta be track cars right? that much boost cant be too streetable can it? this is my daily driven car so i wanted something that drives pretty normal but will take off when i push on the gas. know what i mean? hey whtteg, so with that oil thing, i just plug it in and connect to the turbo? so no need to drill into anything else? i notice that ur ls is na and mostly basic mods but u know a lot about turbos, are u smoking a lot of cars with ur current set up? just curious what a na honda with basic bolt ons is capable of. some people with crx /zc motor told me they smoke wrx all day long.

CANT GO WRONG WITH HKS AND BALLBEARING!!!