Okay, I have an LS in my civic. I know first off, I know I need to make it a manual tranny, thats a given. Don't ask why I have an LS auto in my car, long story. Now, my question is, I am planing to eventaully build up the engine, close the deck, etc, to handle a sh*tload of boost. My goal is 400hp. I've been researching what I need to do to get their. I know also know the LS tranny is great for Turbocharging, cuz of its longer gear ratios (I also know I'll need new axles, an LSD, etc). My question is, I was thinkin, it'd be best to keep it an LS, not an LS/Vtec, with the goals I have. I am not sure though. If I went LS/Vtec, it'd be a GSR head, and I was thinkin a Type-r tranny (has an LSD) and ecu. Or would you still keep it an LS tranny and just add the vtec ecu. I know a few places, from a few here one in cali and one in arizona, that do good LS/Vtecs. WHat are your thoughts. Keep in a regualr LS and build it up? or Build up an LS/VTec. I heard for such I high HP app, I'd be better off keepin it a regular LS.

Don't do LS VTEC. Unreliable and not worth the money it would take to do it right. Get the LS tranny, no Type R tranny, they are even worse for turbo than a GSR tranny.

with the type r tranny your gears will be sooo short cuz you can only rev to 7200. first gear would end at 25 and that would be gay

Don't do LS VTEC. Unreliable and not worth the money it would take to do it right. Get the LS tranny, no Type R tranny, they are even worse for turbo than a GSR tranny.

.with the type r tranny your gears will be sooo short cuz you can only rev to 7200. first gear would end at 25 and that would be gay

Both of you stop and I doubt either of you have EVER even seen a frankenstein, if you have it was some piece of shit some dumbass threw together in you town and had it blow up. LSvtec and CRVtec's are reliabe as hell if you build it right and not to mention can be built to destroy. And the tranny, hmmmm, do either of you even know the gear ratios, obviously not, they are the same 1st gear in ALL the hydraulic trannies 3.230, and USDM LS/GS/SE have the SAME second as the GSR, as a matter of fact the Y21/S21/S4C/S80 ALL have the same 1-4 with the 5th gear and the FD being different in the JDM ITR and 3 and 4 in the USDM GSR, and the USDM/JDM GSR and the US LS have the same 1st and 2nd, which is where your money is in a race. So next time you post shit that you have no idea about, do it in your own home and not on a public forum

Hey, thanx for the info guys. I had heard that LS/Vtecs and Type-r trannys where no good for a turbo, but that was just heresay, and no one would tell me why. and the magazines were no good either, they are all "do LS/Vtec cuz it's cool." thanx for the info, it will come to good use someday. The last thing I wanna do is build the enginewrong and get the wrong tranny for that type of app. now that I think bout what u said for the tranny, yea, your right. The LS tranny's longer gear ratios are more turbo friendly, thats why some High HP gears use LS trannys I am guessin. Again, thanx for the help, and feel free to drop any more advice if ya have any.

jcrx...since I am guessin you read my above question, can I get your opinion? You read what goals are and what I am trying to do. So, non-vtec LS or LS/Vtec? and what tranny do you like? Mind you, I'm gonna fully build whichever I choose, and pay to have it done right. It costs way more to fix it once its broke, lol. Again, any opinions and info would be great. I am lookin to learn as much as I can. Now that I know my goal, I just need to deicded on the route to get there. Thanx for the help, whoever helps out:)

Gear ratois and spool time are definitely something you want to consider, but you also have to think about your powerband on a certain engine and build as far as where it produces power. For people to say that the type R tranny and the other vtec trannies are not good for turbo is negligent. Powerband is what you need to consider when you are doing a build, not hearsay about what is good for what, based on " what I heard was" bullshit. Honestly, it is not resonable to say "this is the best for your application" till you get on a dyno and experiment. I would choose a GSR as a good middle ground to start at if I were I your shoes. There is a reason that people ( including Honda) choose the type R tranny over the LS one though for high power applications. Those long gears do sound good if you are after extended trips to the uper RPM range, but the shorter gears insure you stay in your powerband and not drop out in between shifts.

Originally posted by jcrx
but the shorter gears insure you stay in your powerband and not drop out in between shifts.

You don't know what you're talking about. The LS Tranny is better for a turbo application, as the longer gearing helps spool the turbo. He's going to keep the B18B1, he just wants to know if to do a Frankenstein or not. So he needs the LS tranny, because even with the GSR head it's not going to rev over 7500 RPM. And you're going on talking about the powerband, there is a reason honda mated the LS tranny with an LS you know. And this thing about the Type R tranny, it's good for N/A applications only. The Type R tranny with a turbocharged LS engine would suck balls. You would never be in the 'powerband'' very long with a Type R tranny. GSR tranny is closer ratio to the Type R tranny than to the LS tranny.

Thanx for the info:) Would you make it a frankinstein (LS/Vtec it) then with that tranny or leave the LS be?

Leave it an LS. Like the one guy said that I was arguing with, LS/VTEC IS reliable - but you have to pay out the ass to get it that way. It's not worth it. Get a good P/P job with a competition 5 angle valve job, maybe a cam swap thats specifically meant for a turbo application and you will make more power and probably still cost less than LS/VTEC.

Originally posted by PWMAN


You don't know what you're talking about. The LS Tranny is better for a turbo application, as the longer gearing helps spool the turbo. He's going to keep the B18B1, he just wants to know if to do a Frankenstein or not. So he needs the LS tranny, because even with the GSR head it's not going to rev over 7500 RPM. And you're going on talking about the powerband, there is a reason honda mated the LS tranny with an LS you know. And this thing about the Type R tranny, it's good for N/A applications only. The Type R tranny with a turbocharged LS engine would suck balls. You would never be in the 'powerband'' very long with a Type R tranny. GSR tranny is closer ratio to the Type R tranny than to the LS tranny.


I totally agree with you! Anways about ls v-tec yes its reliable if built right but theres a break down period. My friend called this shop which i forgot who but its a shop in cali and they're known for building ls v-tecs. Well he wanted to know how much he'll do it for and he told him the price and he explained the break down period. It means that it'll last a certain time and then you have to rebuild it again. I'm not quite sure if this is true but i dont have any doubts that it wouldn't be true. Well if i was you i'd just keep it str8 ls motor. Theres a guy around here running 12s with STOCK ls motor with upgraded fuel and i think he has a f-max turbo kit on there. I believe hes running 12 lbs of boost which is pretty damn good for a stock motor. So get the ls trans along with light fly wheel to cause less turbo lag , upgraded clutch, LSD would be nice of course!:)

thanx for the info mellowboy:)

Also if you get a lsd try to keep your final drive gear, If t=you install the type r final drive with the lsd then you will have screwed up your gear ratios try to keep the 4.266.

what LSD brands, etc, do you recommend. It sounds like I'll end up going with an LS tranny from what I am hearing. and also from what I am hereing here, I think it would be smart of me to keep the LS non-vtec, and not do the LS/Vtec. What LSD's are good? Adding an LSD to the LS tranny wont mess with the gear/final drive ratio's, will it?

No it doesn't change anything about the gearing. Quaife have the best LSD's. I think thats how you spell it - quiafe.???

Good lsd's are Kaaz, Quife and Cusco.

I was just saying to try to keep your final gear b/c some ppl likr to buy a type r lsd and sometimes you get th efinal gear with it and I was saying to just use yours and not the type r. Unlesss you want to but the ls final gear is much better for turbo apps.

Again, thatnks for the info ppl:biggrin: I think I'll stay away from the Type-r lsd then, unless its better. It sounds like it wouldn't be any workse to get one of theother brands u all listed, cusco, kaaz, quife, than a type-r...and that would insure my final drive isnt messed with.

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
Okay, I have an LS in my civic. I know first off, I know I need to make it a manual tranny, thats a given. Don't ask why I have an LS auto in my car, long story. Now, my question is, I am planing to eventaully build up the engine, close the deck, etc, to handle a sh*tload of boost. My goal is 400hp. I've been researching what I need to do to get their. I know also know the LS tranny is great for Turbocharging, cuz of its longer gear ratios (I also know I'll need new axles, an LSD, etc). My question is, I was thinkin, it'd be best to keep it an LS, not an LS/Vtec, with the goals I have. I am not sure though. If I went LS/Vtec, it'd be a GSR head, and I was thinkin a Type-r tranny (has an LSD) and ecu. Or would you still keep it an LS tranny and just add the vtec ecu. I know a few places, from a few here one in cali and one in arizona, that do good LS/Vtecs. WHat are your thoughts. Keep in a regualr LS and build it up? or Build up an LS/VTec. I heard for such I high HP app, I'd be better off keepin it a regular LS.

gsr head...? EW

where are you getting info from? lsvtec turbo puts out more than built ls turbo unless you run an equally agressive cam as one thats on a high high power lsv . but even then, you would have to find a cam that would be a serious beast and then you would kill the car as a street driver. i seriously doubt you'll ever reach the kind of horsepower your expecting with an ls-t. 400 to the wheels without a good flowing b16 head is tough but not impossible :). i know from experience.you have to know your way around that engine pretty well to get the power you want.

goodluck man, youve got a shitload of work ahead of you.
im getting ready to retire my fast car from the streets. a severly reworked ctr head is going on along with a new turbo manifold, some "top secret tricks" lol and a rebuilt cable ys1. im shooting for high 500 horses to the wheels with either the new 1300cc or 1100cc injectors.
im also finally going to put together the fiberglass hatch hinges so that i can put that on. and dont worry....i will post pics as soon as i pay off my best buy card and get my new camera.

quaife LSD are the best I heard...and they are less expensive than cusco and Kaaz.....People don't underestimate the LS engine. It's pretty dam good engine.....and is arguably the strongest Torque B series engine you can get. It is perfect for turbo applications....you really don't need 500 HP on an integra to smoke people......255 WHP can get you 13.3 in a quarter mile...How much dam power you want? WRX's, evo's, corvettes, camaros, mustangs run about 13.3-13.5...so what more do you want? a 10 second street car is NOT going to be street legal and most likely will be uncomfortable to drive...Do you know what kind of clutch you would have to get to support 500 HP???? You'd better make sure that whoever is in front of you is out of the way..because engagement will be dam harsh! As soon as you let up it's going to engage and take off.....not to mention its going to be harder to press the clutch in....is 450-500 hp needed? I see alot of people talking about building 9, 10 second street cars......I don't think so...not legally.

Originally posted by super_man_3179
a 10 second street car is NOT going to be street legal and most likely will be uncomfortable to drive...Do you know what kind of clutch you would have to get to support 500 HP???? You'd better make sure that whoever is in front of you is out of the way..because engagement will be dam harsh! As soon as you let up it's going to engage and take off.....not to mention its going to be harder to press the clutch in....is 450-500 hp needed? I see alot of people talking about building 9, 10 second street cars......I don't think so...not legally.

umm....my 10 second slip was in street legal form and before this month (retired the car from the street) i drove it on the weekends in good weather. my car has a stage 5 four puck clutch from clutchmasters with a solid springless hub which means feathering is alliminated. driving the car was not THAT hard. pushing in the clutch is not much tougher than a cm stage 2-4 clutch.

Can I ask why you like the B16 head better? Superior Racing Development in Arizona (they have done over 15 tech articles in magazines in the past 2 years) told me that the GSR head is better suited for turbocharger due to the shape of cumbustion chambers on the head. They said the B16A head wasn't bad, just that the GSR head would be better for a LS/Vtec turbo. I'm not argueing, only tellin you where I heard it:wink: Also, I do know someone in cali with a 500hp ls/vtec-turbo, thing halls ass, lol. I had also heard, however, that it's better to turbocharger an LS, and not an LS/Vtec..so it all contridictong each other...hence my confusion over what to do, lol. I have that power goal. I am willing to go what route I need to attain it, and wait until I can afford to go a certain route if I have too. My goal is the power level, not doing it a certain way, so like I said in an earlier post, any input helps:D The more in depth the reasons the better too:D

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
Can I ask why you like the B16 head better? Superior Racing Development in Arizona (they have done over 15 tech articles in magazines in the past 2 years) told me that the GSR head is better suited for turbocharger due to the shape of cumbustion chambers on the head.


They said the B16A head wasn't bad, just that the GSR head would be better for a LS/Vtec turbo. I'm not argueing, only tellin you where I heard it:wink:
that is a stock head.

Also, I do know someone in cali with a 500hp ls/vtec-turbo, thing halls ass, lol.
hahaha......yeh...they do

I had also heard, however, that it's better to turbocharger an LS, and not an LS/Vtec..
if you want better reliablity and less headaches....lsturbo. if you want crazy power lsvt

...hence my confusion over what to do, lol. I have that power goal. I am willing to go what route I need to attain it, and wait until I can afford to go a certain route if I have too. My goal is the power level, not doing it a certain way, so like I said in an earlier post, any input helps:D The more in depth the reasons the better too:D
dope

Originally posted by super_man_3179
quaife LSD are the best I heard...and they are less expensive than cusco and Kaaz

Kaaz should be cheaper from the 2.

the LS VTEC swap is a great way to utilize a b18b, an with a turbo this motor is unstopable. There are only a few problems your going to face if not reinforceing internals. Ok first look at the rod to stroke ratio, rod to stroke ratio is the ratio of the length of the connecting rod to the length of the piston stroke, or the distance the piston travels from the top to the bottom of its stroke. A low rod to stroke ratio means the rod will be closer to a horizontal angle on its upstroke. This means that more of its force will be pushing the piston horizontally, rather than vertically. Meaning two things for your engine. First of all there will be more stress on the sides and in the center of the rod, rather than on its ends, leaving the rod more vulnerable to breaking. Second of all there will be more stress on your cylinder walls. The rod is pushing the piston at a more horizontal angle right into your cylinder walls, rather than up and through them. The risk here is putting that piston right through the cylinder wall. Or the cylinder wall will actually flex under the pressure, causing the shape to turn from a circle to an oval shape. This causes the loss of the seal created by the piston rings. A small amount of oil could slip past into the combustion chamber. Bad things happen from here. The oil gets combusted, leaving nasty carbon deposits in your combustion chamber and exhaust ports. which is a bad thing for flow or valve sealing. But if the swap is done right with replaced and stroger internals you should have no problems.

hybridsol, what should I look for to make sure the swap is done right? there is one place locally that seems to know what they are doing talking to them, and Superior Racing development (they do a lot of work with Hasport) in Arizona seems to know there stuff too. But like you said, I want to make sure it is done right. I am not looking to do things wrong, and have bad things happen and ruin the engine. Secondly, what types of internal strenghtaning do you recommend. Is there anything to do about the little rod ratio problem? or is that what the strenghting of the internals helps with? I was thinking closeing the deck for sure...that open deck design of honda's seems vurnable to puressure, stress and boost, so thats a must do. But whar else...I know I need "stronger rods and bearing" since the LS has kinda weak rods and bearings (so to speak), and probably at this point new pistons to, along with new vavles, retainers, springs, etc. Some porting and polishing of the head, and I figure at least a 3 angle vavle job would be smart (or do you suggest something else?) Would knew cams be smart too? what else do you suggest? Also, I fought what its called, but there is this thing JG eninge dynamics and Dan Pormero (I spelled it wrong, I know) racing do to the head that improves the flow...it's not porting and polishing, they are doing soemething to the shape of the head..I have a book on it, but can't remember for the life of me what it is...they usually do that on high output engines. There is like milling, filling, welding, graiding, smoothing out..I know this is no help, lol. I'll post it when I remember what its called, lol. I am willing to save-up money to do everything that needs to be done to make this work and do it right, versus half-assing it and killing my engine. Is there anything you'd change that I mentioned? Or are there things I missed? I want to do the engine work right, and all at once, so any help you could give is appriacted. Also, for turbo apps..Do you like GSR heads or B16 heads? I know SRD and others I have talked to say the GSR head is better to start with if I am gonna turbo the LS/Vtec? What are your thoughts? Thanx for the help:bigthumb:

:iamwithst


I cant really figure out what you're asking... Maybe because its 1:24am for me... but I havent a clue what you just asked...

I'll take a guess... as to say you're thinking of having your head milled for a bit more compression? :confused:

:dunno:


Ok wasting more internet here....







and here.......





And more here.

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
hybridsol, what should I look for to make sure the swap is done right? there is one place locally that seems to know what they are doing talking to them, and Superior Racing development (they do a lot of work with Hasport) in Arizona seems to know there stuff too. But like you said, I want to make sure it is done right. I am not looking to do things wrong, and have bad things happen and ruin the engine. Secondly, what types of internal strenghtaning do you recommend. Is there anything to do about the little rod ratio problem? or is that what the strenghting of the internals helps with? I was thinking closeing the deck for sure...that open deck design of honda's seems vurnable to puressure, stress and boost, so thats a must do. But whar else...I know I need "stronger rods and bearing" since the LS has kinda weak rods and bearings (so to speak), and probably at this point new pistons to, along with new vavles, retainers, springs, etc. Some porting and polishing of the head, and I figure at least a 3 angle vavle job would be smart (or do you suggest something else?) Would knew cams be smart too? what else do you suggest? Also, I fought what its called, but there is this thing JG eninge dynamics and Dan Pormero (I spelled it wrong, I know) racing do to the head that improves the flow...it's not porting and polishing, they are doing soemething to the shape of the head..I have a book on it, but can't remember for the life of me what it is...they usually do that on high output engines. There is like milling, filling, welding, graiding, smoothing out..I know this is no help, lol. I'll post it when I remember what its called, lol. I am willing to save-up money to do everything that needs to be done to make this work and do it right, versus half-assing it and killing my engine. Is there anything you'd change that I mentioned? Or are there things I missed? I want to do the engine work right, and all at once, so any help you could give is appriacted. Also, for turbo apps..Do you like GSR heads or B16 heads? I know SRD and others I have talked to say the GSR head is better to start with if I am gonna turbo the LS/Vtec? What are your thoughts? Thanx for the help:bigthumb:
I'm not farmiliar with your area, so I guess just ask around. You are correct in assuming that strengthening your internals will improve your situation, in regards to the rod/stroke ratio. The engine needs to be rebuilt with new internals (sleeve's), bearings, seals, oil pump, etc. (what you mentioned). When rebuilding an LS bottom end, I recommend either shimming the oil pump for more pressure or using a b18c or b16a oil pump. To add the VTEC cylinder head to the b18b bottom end, you have to tap and plug to the VTEC oil supply hole found on the bottom left side of the head. A 1/8 inch pipe plug should work for this. Then run an oil supply line from a Tfitting placed on the oil pressure sending unit on the block to the VTEC oil galley plug found on the intake side of the head near the distributor. To make the oil line, you need a piece of -4 braided steel line around 20 inchs long, with two female A/N fittings attached, a 3/8 inch NPT to -4A/N adapter for the head, a 1/8 inch NPT to -4 A/N adapter and a 1/8-inch NPT Tfitting with two female sides and one male side. Also open up the dowel pin holes on the VTEC cylinder head to 9/16 inch b/c the b18b block has larger dowel pins to locate the head on the block. It is also critical to hook up the knock sensor, or the VTEC function will be crap. The engine's ECU looks for the knock sensor signal in order to activate VTEC. The B18B block has no provision for a knock sensor. If you don't want to run a knock sensor, you can do the following things. You can have a knock sensor not attached but grounded to the chassis and connected to your ECU, or Hasport I believe carries ECUs that are reprogrammed to allow VTEC operation with no knock sensor input. An LS head gasket is used with the appropriate VTEC ECU for your year and chassis of vehicle. A jumper wire running from the appropriate pin in the ECU to the VTEC control solenoid completes the activation of VTEC. But since your getting this done at a shop consider this a list of things to look for, if you suspect the shop screwed something up. (Shops are risky buisness) I recommend doing the swap yourself only then can you ensure perfection. As for the head a GSR head will give you a higher compression than the other b-series heads because of its 41.6cc combustion chamber. The smaller combustion chamber makes .2 more compression. Then you have the b16a head, the b16a head is a better flowing head 5.25% in fact and with a larger combustion chamber 42.7cc's. So for turbo aplication take a wild guess which head you should use. Then again I like the b18c head. I hope I helped out, if I missed anything feel free to comment. I wish you the best of luck. :smile:

Originally posted by hybridsol

I'm not farmiliar with your area, so I guess just ask around. You are correct in assuming that strengthening your internals will improve your situation, in regards to the rod/stroke ratio. The engine needs to be rebuilt with new internals (sleeve's), bearings, seals, oil pump, etc. (what you mentioned). When rebuilding an LS bottom end, I recommend either shimming the oil pump for more pressure or using a b18c or b16a oil pump. To add the VTEC cylinder head to the b18b bottom end, you have to tap and plug to the VTEC oil supply hole found on the bottom left side of the head. A 1/8 inch pipe plug should work for this. Then run an oil supply line from a Tfitting placed on the oil pressure sending unit on the block to the VTEC oil galley plug found on the intake side of the head near the distributor. To make the oil line, you need a piece of -4 braided steel line around 20 inchs long, with two female A/N fittings attached, a 3/8 inch NPT to -4A/N adapter for the head, a 1/8 inch NPT to -4 A/N adapter and a 1/8-inch NPT Tfitting with two female sides and one male side. Also open up the dowel pin holes on the VTEC cylinder head to 9/16 inch b/c the b18b block has larger dowel pins to locate the head on the block. It is also critical to hook up the knock sensor, or the VTEC function will be crap. The engine's ECU looks for the knock sensor signal in order to activate VTEC. The B18B block has no provision for a knock sensor. If you don't want to run a knock sensor, you can do the following things. You can have a knock sensor not attached but grounded to the chassis and connected to your ECU, or Hasport I believe carries ECUs that are reprogrammed to allow VTEC operation with no knock sensor input. An LS head gasket is used with the appropriate VTEC ECU for your year and chassis of vehicle. A jumper wire running from the appropriate pin in the ECU to the VTEC control solenoid completes the activation of VTEC. But since your getting this done at a shop consider this a list of things to look for, if you suspect the shop screwed something up. (Shops are risky buisness) I recommend doing the swap yourself only then can you ensure perfection. As for the head a GSR head will give you a higher compression than the other b-series heads because of its 41.6cc combustion chamber. The smaller combustion chamber makes .2 more compression. Then you have the b16a head, the b16a head is a better flowing head 5.25% in fact and with a larger combustion chamber 42.7cc's. So for turbo aplication take a wild guess which head you should use. Then again I like the b18c head. I hope I helped out, if I missed anything feel free to comment. I wish you the best of luck. :smile:


:eek: That is alot of very helpful info hybridsol.
Is the only difference in the gsr head and the Ls head the vtec oil passage and the smaller dowel pins on the gsr head, that is for bolting up ofcourse, lol I know the other differences lol. But is that the only thing that is different for the block to head fit? What is the pesky oil leak that alot of ppl talk about? Is it the oil line to activate vtec? I am very interested in possibly doing the swap then if that is all the work you have to do to the head, b/c I was under the impression that you had to have some machine shop work done to the head for it to fit, but maybe it was just the two things above that everyone was talking about having a machine shop do.

Originally posted by hybridsol

To add the VTEC cylinder head to the b18b bottom end, you have to tap and plug to the VTEC oil supply hole found on the bottom left side of the head.
if you recomend new pistons....he doesnt need that oil with forged pistons...just weighs it down and the pressure can be used other places

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)

if you recomend new pistons....he doesnt need that oil with forged pistons...just weighs it down and the pressure can be used other places

??? Ummmm What?? Sorry but I am confused, what would it matter if you have forged or cast pistons as far as oil is conserned? And what oil are you talking about, he was saing to plug the hole in the head that supplies the vtec solenoid b/c the b18b bottom end does not have a passage there and there will be a leak. I am not flaming you in any way I am just confused as to what you are talking about.

Originally posted by whtteg


??? Ummmm What?? Sorry but I am confused, what would it matter if you have forged or cast pistons as far as oil is conserned? And what oil are you talking about, he was saing to plug the hole in the head that supplies the vtec solenoid b/c the b18b bottom end does not have a passage there and there will be a leak. I am not flaming you in any way I am just confused as to what you are talking about.

nm...i read that completly wrong i think. shit im drunk and have no clue what the fugc im responding to...ill respond laterr.

Thanx for the help hybridsol, whtteg, and everyone else:bigthumb: . I am curious though, what is that pesky oil leak that whtteg said he heard a lot of ppl talk about? Also, I heard somewhere (not sure where) that LS/Vtec's have a shorter engine life before it's time for a re-build. Is this true? Or is this untrue, more of a consiquence of a bad and incorrect LS/Vtec build? Thanx:smile:

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
Also, I heard somewhere (not sure where) that LS/Vtec's have a shorter engine life before it's time for a re-build. Is this true? Or is this untrue, more of a consiquence of a bad and incorrect LS/Vtec build? Thanx:smile:
yeh 9 times out of 10

Yea I think it is just ppl who cut corners and don't do everything right that causes it to have a shorter lifespan. But it is a honda system and if well maintaned it will last long enough, i would say that if the swap was done right and had all new internals then it could easily see 150K miles, but I don't know for sure that is just an educated guess, you have to understand that to make good hp that engine life will almost always be shortened. And I have a feeling that the oil leak problem is probably just the oil line for the vtec solenoid or someone not cleanning the head surface and the block surface properly and also you have to torque the head bolts in the exact order that the manual states or the head gasket will not seal right in the long run, that could also be the reason for the oil leak. If nobody else answers the questio before i find out the info then I will post it here or pm it to you.:bigthumb:

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)

yeh 9 times out of 10

Do you mean 9 times outta 10 it's cuz of a carless and bad build that causes the shortened life?

Also, Thanks again for the info Whtteg:D

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx


Do you mean 9 times outta 10 it's cuz of a carless and bad build that causes the shortened life?


a) honda doesnt make the engines like this. the designers at honda are brilliant motor builders... chances are..you arent.
b) if your building a high horsepower motor....the life of the car is shortened. thats a gimmie.

I know a high horsepower motor under heavy boost will have a shorter life, I am asking about the LS/VTec part, no boost, as for shortened life. And besides, I am not gonna do anything myself I can't handle...if I have to, I'll go down to LA or Arizona and have someone life SRD, Holeshot Racing, or JG engine Dymanics build it. I wanna make sure I know whats what and all that jazz beofre I start or pay someone. So I am trying to "Do my Homework" now, before I even start.

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
I know a high horsepower motor under heavy boost will have a shorter life, I am asking about the LS/VTec part, no boost, as for shortened life. And besides, I am not gonna do anything myself I can't handle...if I have to, I'll go down to LA or Arizona and have someone life SRD, Holeshot Racing, or JG engine Dymanics build it. I wanna make sure I know whats what and all that jazz beofre I start or pay someone. So I am trying to "Do my Homework" now, before I even start.
after you've got enough info on building a great lsvtec you should be able to build it yourself. thats my rule of thumb.

eckoman_pdx, check this kink out it should answer some questions and let you see some of the things we have been talking about.

b20vtec (http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/b20vtec/b20vtec.php)

Like I said, I won't do anything myself I can't handle. I would like to gather the info and do it myself, the other was a back-up plan, a what-if. I said I would go there if I HAD to, but my plan is to learn what I can..and eventually do it myself, as long as I can handle it and do it right. I won't allow myself to get half-way in and be like...oh sh*t, what do I do. Thats when the costs really start to build.

Hey, thanx for the site whtteg, that helps. Also, I found an Article in HOnda Tuning on doing an LS/Vtec. SRD in Arizona (ppl I have talked to before, actually) are the ones how did the swap for the tech prodedor. It's in the May 2003 issue I belive. That and the site help, they give me an idea w/ photo's bout what everyone is saying.

Originally posted by whtteg



:eek: That is alot of very helpful info hybridsol.
Is the only difference in the gsr head and the Ls head the vtec oil passage and the smaller dowel pins on the gsr head, that is for bolting up ofcourse, lol I know the other differences lol. But is that the only thing that is different for the block to head fit? What is the pesky oil leak that alot of ppl talk about? Is it the oil line to activate vtec? I am very interested in possibly doing the swap then if that is all the work you have to do to the head, b/c I was under the impression that you had to have some machine shop work done to the head for it to fit, but maybe it was just the two things above that everyone was talking about having a machine shop do.
I'm guessing the oil leak has something to do with what hybrid said about the cylinder turning into an oval and screwing the seals. I'm pretty shure that everything is up there, only block work is required. (the combustion chambers are different sizes thats about all.)

eckoman_pdx,
Check this out before you think about JG engines and their work.
JG experience (http://www.myjgengine.com/)

Originally posted by whtteg
eckoman_pdx,
Check this out before you think about JG engines and their work.
JG experience (http://www.myjgengine.com/)
:eek2: wow......I'm gladhe won the court case, I had heard nothing but good things from JG before you posted that.

Holy geez...man, that was freaky the guy had to go through all that. I know that some will say this is just "one bad experince" and that they have built many good engines. But the bodyshop that fixed my car wrong after a rear-end accident was given 4 chances to fix it, after which it was to court to get the money to fix it right. So I can relate. Thanks for the 411. After reading that, I don't think it's worth the risk, even if they normally built good engines. That orderal reminds me of what I had to go through with the body shop. With so many capible people out there, why go to someone who was caught red-handed cutting corners, you know? It seems better to go elsewhere, (or do it yourself if you know how, which I'd have to learn:biggrin: )

Originally posted by whtteg
eckoman_pdx,
Check this out before you think about JG engines and their work.
JG experience (http://www.myjgengine.com/)


Damn thats messed up. Oh well i'd still buy there products though.

wow that sux about JG, i always thought they were a good company, guess you still gotta ask around even about the big boy's out there.

Originally posted by crxlvr
wow that sux about JG, i always thought they were a good company, guess you still gotta ask around even about the big boy's out there.

IMO alot of companies are spending too much time and money on advertising and not enough on quaility control and a good product. Examples are APC, Ractive etc. It is soo sad that it is this way though:shakehead

personnaly i think doing an ls/vtec is better. thats what im doing right now. im using a gsr head and an ls block. what im going to do is get JE pistons and eagle rods with apr bolts. im thinking the crank will be ok. whoever said that this motor will rev only to 7200rpms is a dumbass. it will rev to 8000rpms easily. if u start revving it past 8thou and driving it hard evryday then ur motor will blow. thats what motor do. anyway just yesterday i decided to build it so i can turbo charge it as soon as i get it running.(im done with the head) so as soon as im done ill break it in and take it to the track and tell you guys the time. eckoman_pdx this was my suggestion, if u are going to change most of the internals anyway, go ls/vtec. but dont torture the engine. then it will last. do it only when u need to:) hit me up for more info i got plenty cuz i already started this project. im planing to drop this motor into a hatch. so if anyone knows someone with a good deal on a hatch let me know (im looking for a 92 to 2000 hatch, 92 to 95 i want it to be an si)

alexander_2259@hotmail.com


My bro has a 94 gsr with simple mods like cold air intake, dc sport catback exhaust, 9mm wires, downpipe, and a mugen ecu. its a four door and he runs low 14s. ill post some slips later and some pix.

Originally posted by ~ls/vtec~


......My bro has a 94 gsr with simple mods like cold air intake, dc sport catback exhaust, 9mm wires, downpipe, and a mugen ecu. its a four door and he runs low 14s. ill post some slips later and some pix.

downpipe? is it turbo? b/c a turbo gsr should be deep into the 13's.

Originally posted by ~ls/vtec~



My bro has a 94 gsr with simple mods like cold air intake, dc sport catback exhaust, 9mm wires, downpipe, and a mugen ecu. its a four door and he runs low 14s. ill post some slips later and some pix.


Please dont tell me its all motor sayin you run low 14s with just those mods?

Originally posted by mellowboy



Please dont tell me its all motor sayin you run low 14s with just those mods?

yea no chance bro.

ill post some slips later. ill even get u a video on here

did you mean test pipe. was her on slicks?

did you mean test pipe. was her on slicks? does it have full interior?

he ran on 17 inch kuhmos(712's) z rated. he had nothing in the trunk (no spare, etc) no back seat. when i said downpipe i meant no catalyc converter. by the way the mugen ecu helps a lot. the redline is at 9800rms. of corse im not stupid enough to run it that high. anyway he runs it to like 8500rpms. he always stays in vtec range after 1st. o yeah like 3 days before he went to the track i changed his clutch too.


to get back on subject i found a shop that will bore my engine for 150 bucks. i dont know how much should i bore it down. the stock swize of the cylinder is like 81mm. i want to bore it down like to 83mm, then buy some pistons for this size. eckoman_pdx i know where you can get a gsr head for like 400 bucks.

Originally posted by ~ls/vtec~
the redline is at 9800rms.

o yeah like 3 days before he went to the track i changed his clutch too.

to get back on subject i found a shop that will bore my engine for 150 bucks

i want to bore it down like to 83mm, then buy some pistons for this size.

:rofl:

:thefinger haters

anyway.....back on topic, what did you decide to go with head wise eckoman_pdx? Sorry I've been busy the past week and haven't had a chance to answer questions, although it seems my asistance was not needed. Still I am very curious to what you decided, and I wish you the best of luck. (Keep us posted)

Originally posted by ~ls/vtec~
:thefinger haters

i hate you.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)


i hate you.
As if you have any room to critisize someone else. mr I run 10.3 at 138 mph in the quarter on street tires. I'd believe his times b/f I believe that.

Originally posted by ~ls/vtec~



My bro has a 94 gsr with simple mods like cold air intake, dc sport catback exhaust, 9mm wires, downpipe, and a mugen ecu. its a four door and he runs low 14s. ill post some slips later and some pix.

Originally posted by mellowboy



Please dont tell me its all motor sayin you run low 14s with just those mods?
And what is hard to believe about a GSR running low 14's? I know B16A hatch's that run mid 14's. If it has some weight reduct. and the guy is a good driver, that is no problem.

Originally posted by jcrx

And what is hard to believe about a GSR running low 14's? I know B16A hatch's that run mid 14's. If it has some weight reduct. and the guy is a good driver, that is no problem.

At the time he posted no one said anything about weight reduction. He posted later that the GSR had no rear seat/spare etc.

Originally posted by jcrx

And what is hard to believe about a GSR running low 14's? I know B16A hatch's that run mid 14's. If it has some weight reduct. and the guy is a good driver, that is no problem.


Ok first of all he never said its a hatch. He said gsr which i'm thinkin an integra. Integras are heavy. With those mods theres no way he can hit low 14s.

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

As if you have any room to critisize someone else. mr I run 10.3 at 138 mph in the quarter on street tires. I'd believe his times b/f I believe that.
street tires.....where the hell did you get that peice of false info from? i never said anything about street tires on that car

and i like your avatar....vw hater? i can gaurantee that i know quite a few vw guys that would give you the kick just so you can say you had em for at least a few seconds

Originally posted by hybridsol
anyway.....back on topic, what did you decide to go with head wise eckoman_pdx? Sorry I've been busy the past week and haven't had a chance to answer questions, although it seems my asistance was not needed. Still I am very curious to what you decided, and I wish you the best of luck. (Keep us posted)

I am still thinking about which head to use. I have still heard several people (and not just on here) say go with the GSR, but I understand what you said about the B16A head. The slightly bigger combustion chamber at 42.7cc and the better flowing head by 5.25% seem to go hand in hand with what is beneficial for turbo'd apps. I get the feeling from what I am hearing that maybe the B16A is better for turbo, and gsr for N/A. But I don't know, thats just my hunch. I did read in a book somewhere about something in the GSR head, maybe it was the shape of the combustio chamber, or maybe something else about the chamber, I think about reshaping the head for better quench area to promote more complete combustion. Of course, I figure doing this to the B16A or GSR would be the same, so again, I am not sure what is was I read that said the GSR was better for turbo's, nor do I remember the reason it was said. But right now, I am slightly leaning towards a B16A head I think. I used to talk to a guy in San Deigo who has a 500hp ls/vtec with a B16A head, and that seems to fit in with what you were saying about the B16A for turbos. Of course, would the better flow numbers be irrelavant after porting anf polishing the head (whichever is chosen? I still am leaning towards the B16 based on what I am gathering. I wish I remembered what is was I read about the GSR head in that book, lol

I don't know how this would play into a turbo application,but the gsr head is going to have secondary runners on the intake and the B16 head won't. I have seen some guys on teamintegra.com talking about disabling the secondary runners so maybe they are not as good as the regular B16 runners. Just a thought, maybe someone will correct anything that is not true or explain why or why not the secondary runners will help or hurt the performance from a turbo motor.

B16 head is better, also responds better to porting.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)

street tires.....where the hell did you get that peice of false info from? i never said anything about street tires on that car
lets see this car? If its the one in your profile your full of it. I want proof. I could have sworn you said you smoked a Z06 on worn street tires? You posted a thread about it. Then you said in your last thread you were going to be in the 9's next year. (I have to see this CRIX)

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)
and i like your avatar....vw hater? i can gaurantee that i know quite a few vw guys that would give you the kick just so you can say you had em for at least a few seconds
Yes..... I gaurentee you don't, unless you live in the land of the 11 sec VW's. lmao :iceslolan

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

Yes..... I gaurentee you don't, unless you live in the land of the 11 sec VW's. lmao :iceslolan

yeh i guess i do...the slowest one runs low 12's...and these are only the guys im freinds with. ive seen faster bugs at the track

one turbo vr6 in an mk3 making 390 horses to the wheels not sure of what it runs at the track.
one turbo beetle making 350 to the wheels with a mostly fiberglass body thats hit high 9's at the track....and can be driven on the street with a few minor mods (the guy brings it out whenever the weather is nice)
one newly rebuilt vr6 turbo in a 97 jetta that runs low 12's in street trim (all leather seats and ac)
and a squad of 1.8t's from a shop called dubworks that are in rabbits and older gti's.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)


yeh i guess i do...the slowest one runs low 12's...and these are only the guys im freinds with. ive seen faster bugs at the track

one turbo vr6 in an mk3 making 390 horses to the wheels not sure of what it runs at the track.
one turbo beetle making 350 to the wheels with a mostly fiberglass body thats hit high 9's at the track....and can be driven on the street with a few minor mods (the guy brings it out whenever the weather is nice)
one newly rebuilt vr6 turbo in a 97 jetta that runs low 12's in street trim (all leather seats and ac)
and a squad of 1.8t's from a shop called dubworks that are in rabbits and older gti's.
Like I said b/f your claims don't add up 350 hp 9 sec street legal beetle with minor mods......minor modifications.............the slowest VW you know runs low 12's.....dude I'll be in VA next semester with hybridsol, you set your boys up so we can run em down, oh and by the way we have a 10 sec crx as well BUT ITS NOT STREET DRIVEN! You can be shure to see that in the near future I'm sick of all these lying f*cks.:cya:
(I want pictures) PROVE IT!

a picture speaks a thousand words!

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

Like I said b/f your claims don't add up 350 hp 9 sec street legal beetle with minor mods......minor modifications.............

read the post again you assclown....i said it can be street legal with minor mods.....that means with a few things unbolted/bolted back in.

thOriginally posted by DblOvrhedCamron
e slowest VW you know runs low 12's.....dude I'll be in VA next semester with hybridsol, you set your boys up so we can run em down, oh and by the way we have a 10 sec crx as well BUT ITS NOT STREET DRIVEN! You can be shure to see that in the near future I'm sick of all these lying f*cks.:cya:
(I want pictures) PROVE IT!
pm me with your number and when your going to be in town. you can take a hack at any of them or me....and ill only run about a bar. o yeh and btw...if you want to talk about WE.....WE have a sentra and a 240 turning 10's if yalls little crx wants to have some track competition.

if that race ever goes down i tthink someone should get that on cam i would like to see that race.

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

Like I said b/f your claims don't add up 350 hp 9 sec street legal beetle with minor mods......minor modifications.............the slowest VW you know runs low 12's.....dude I'll be in VA next semester with hybridsol, you set your boys up so we can run em down, oh and by the way we have a 10 sec crx as well BUT ITS NOT STREET DRIVEN! You can be shure to see that in the near future I'm sick of all these lying f*cks.:cya:
(I want pictures) PROVE IT!

HOLY SHIT! Are you serious man? Ya'll will be in VA? If so I'm meeting up with you guys. I'm racing on your side against ssshhh(burn) too. I don't know about him or his crx, but dbl and sol have a REAL crx that runs 10s! They burned my buddy HemiGeorge down with it:frown::biggrin:
Definately let me know when you'll be in the area. Also, shh(burn), I never realized you were in VA. Where abouts are you located? I'll stop by and pay you a visit. I'll bring my digi too so i can take pics of your car for the board, since I'm assuming you just don't have access to a digital camera...

Originally posted by Self


HOLY SHIT! Are you serious man? Ya'll will be in VA? If so I'm meeting up with you guys. I'm racing on your side against ssshhh(burn) too. I don't know about him or his crx, but dbl and sol have a REAL crx that runs 10s! They burned my buddy HemiGeorge down with it:frown::biggrin:
Definately let me know when you'll be in the area. Also, shh(burn), I never realized you were in VA. Where abouts are you located? I'll stop by and pay you a visit. I'll bring my digi too so i can take pics of your car for the board, since I'm assuming you just don't have access to a digital camera...
Thats a great Idea Self, were going to be in harrisonburg but I'm willing to drive pretty much wherever. We were just going to take two cars b/c I'm driving back early, and he's staying for a few more days. May be trailering another down with the 4x4 if his crx shows potential for a race. (or this beetle) :bigthumb:

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)

pm me with your number and when your going to be in town. you can take a hack at any of them or me....and ill only run about a bar. o yeh and btw...if you want to talk about WE.....WE have a sentra and a 240 turning 10's if yalls little crx wants to have some track competition.
pffff you give me your number and I'll call you while im in VA. This way Self can contact you as well.
PS-self's Z28 could run you into the ground as well, and I don't think he's running 10's yet. (correct me if I'm wrong, I know you were close)

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

pffff you give me your number and I'll call you while im in VA. This way Self can contact you as well.
PS-self's Z28 could run you into the ground as well, and I don't think he's running 10's yet. (correct me if I'm wrong, I know you were close)

Never got into the 10s as I could never run a problem-free pass on a 250shot. Was hitting VERY low 11s though on a 175 with only a 1.9 60'. So I'm assuming mid 10s were very attainable on a 250 with a decent launch.
Sadley enough though, that's all in the past. Because of some budget...problems...I've since had to sell my mostly stock 96 Z28 AND part out my 95 Z28. The car is almost completely back to stock:frown::frown::frown:
Fortunately though, after all of that was done, I came back into some money. I was contemplating a new car just for a change, but really don't want a payment hanging over me. So I'm just going to start the modding back up! Taking a different route this time though. No nitrous, no FI, just a straight up all motor mammoth, hehe. And depending when you guys are down, I may be well on my way with that goal.
Do you have any clue when you guys will be down? I can meet you on your way to Harrisonburg btw. Or just go down there and meet you. It's only about 2 hours south of me. I know the JMU area well. I go to Virginia Tech and have to pass right through there everytime I go to or from tech. I'll PM you and sshh with my number a little later on, no prob.

Scrap the ls... get a b16, rev it to the stratosphere, and cram IT full of boost, crazy power, and at low revs it drives like an lx civic...

oh and rod/stroke ratio? 1.74:1 on the b16, definitely strong.

I wouldn't scrap the LS..I like the extra torque of the 1.8s. Thats why the Turbo and LS/Vtec questions have been raised. Plus, the LS tranny is really good for turbo's, and the LS bottom end is good for it as well. I just prefer the added Torque of a 1.8. It will drive much stronger than the b16 pre turbo, and thats a big thing for me; decent torque. Especially being surrounded by hills and such. Thats why I went a 1.8 over a 1.6 awhile ago. Of coruse, you are correct, the B16 does have a much more ideal rod-stroke ratio. I guess it's all a matter of trade-off's in the end.

hehe i was kiddin about the b16, but the matter of trade offs is shear truth, the best thing is to try and get a hold of the motor you want inside the car already.

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
hehe i was kiddin about the b16, but the matter of trade offs is shear truth, the best thing is to try and get a hold of the motor you want inside the car already.

:iagree:

:werd:

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
hehe i was kiddin about the b16, but the matter of trade offs is shear truth, the best thing is to try and get a hold of the motor you want inside the car already.

I did, over a year ago. I have a 97 LS B18B1 engine, tranny, and ECU. Thats what I want to start with as my engine. The LS tranny is prefact for my perfered route of FI (turbo). The LS bottom end is a real strong bottom end too. So like I said, I already HAVE the motor I want to start with. Now I am trying to figure out HOW I want to build it Build up the internals and turbo the crap outta it, or LS/Vtec it, build up the interna;s, and Turbo the hell outta it. I would never buy a pre-built motor or an LS/Vtec someone else did. I want to build the motor the right why, and how I want it done. I know the basic 2 routes I would go. As the previous 5 pages of posts show, I am just trying to decide on a route while I am still savin up the $$ to contuine. But as for getting ahold of the motor I want inside the car already? No way I am buying an already finished LS turbo or Vtec from someone else. Too many questions, Was it built right, was it abused (most likely it was) when they owned it? PLus, I already have the LS engine, tranny, and ECU installed in my car, and am very happy with it. So it's a waste of $$ to junk a low mileage LS for an already built one. I don't like buying things other people already built up or have done. I like to buy the starting point and then do the build-ups I want myself. Then the cat is truely my vision, and not someone elses.

I hate arguing with people, and I should just agree with you, but the LS bottom end cant take near the punishment a b16 bottom end can. The LS bottom has way to much stroke for its own good. And actually, the B18 is better NA because of its descent torque w/o FI.

Smaller discplacement turbo engines will always defeat large displacement NA engines cuz the small turbo has the torque, and the revs. And we all know that is what hp is. But anyhoo the reason the b18 is weaker than the b16 is because of the rod/stroke ratio. The B18 will buckle under significant boost unless you go forged in the belly. And even then, a forged b16 will run circles around a forged b18 in terms of strength. The b16 is the closest to geometric perfection. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
the LS bottom end cant take near the punishment a b16 bottom end can. The LS bottom has way to much stroke for its own good. And actually, the B18 is better NA because of its descent torque w/o FI.

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
But anyhoo the reason the b18 is weaker than the b16 is because of the rod/stroke ratio. The B18 will buckle under significant boost unless you go forged in the belly. And even then, a forged b16 will run circles around a forged b18 in terms of strength. The b16 is the closest to geometric perfection. :thumbsup:

fuck you and your small motor

uh, fuck you too.

Im sorta confused.

I guess since I got a b16, im an "Ls hater"

This thread is about to be shut down im sure...

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
I guess since I got a b16, im an "Ls hater"
exactly
you've been branded

i think youve got serious defensive issues... i hope that 10 second teg makes you feel a little better about yourself... i cant imagine how youd act without it :rolleyes:

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
i think youve got serious defensive issues... i hope that 10 second teg makes you feel a little better about yourself... i cant imagine how youd act without it :rolleyes:
haha i was joking with you.
and i dont drive an integra

i guess i meant teg motor. :lol:

BTW, rod/stroke ratio needs to be good when you rev high, not when you get a lot of power out of it. So if you don't take an LS much past 7K RPM, I've seen people get 400 HP out of the stock crank. Of course you can rev the B16 higher, but that doesn't make it faster or able to handle more power.

Originally posted by PWMAN
BTW, rod/stroke ratio needs to be good when you rev high, not when you get a lot of power out of it. So if you don't take an LS much past 7K RPM, I've seen people get 400 HP out of the stock crank. Of course you can rev the B16 higher, but that doesn't make it faster or able to handle more power.

exactly. ide really LOVE to see some explantion from this kid on how a b16 can handle boost better than a b18b.... keeping in mind that we are talking about stock engines, personally i havnt seen (in real life....not some dyno sheet bullshit) a turbo b16 that was pushing more than 10 psi and that was at the track. i tuned my first ls bottom end to 16 pounds at the track and that was on a stock ls motor with a custom kit with a t3t4e and a ported revhard manifold. ive heard of a guy in virginia beach that tuned a stock ls to 19 pounds before they blew it up.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)


exactly. ide really LOVE to see some explantion from this kid on how a b16 can handle boost better than a b18b.... keeping in mind that we are talking about stock engines, personally i havnt seen (in real life....not some dyno sheet bullshit) a turbo b16 that was pushing more than 10 psi and that was at the track. i tuned my first ls bottom end to 16 pounds at the track and that was allstock ls with a custom kit with a t3t4e and a ported revhard manifold. ive heard of a guy in virginia beach that tuned a stock ls to 19 pounds before they blew it up.

damn i havent seen a stocker crank make that kinda power, shit thats cool.

And you dont think the extra revs on the b16 will make overall more hp? You do know even a stock b16 crank can turn 9000 rpms and possibly higher right? i mean thats a tough number to compete with...

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
damn i havent seen a stocker crank make that kinda power, shit thats cool.

And you dont think the extra revs on the b16 will make overall more hp? You do know even a stock b16 crank can turn 9000 rpms and possibly higher right? i mean thats a tough number to compete with...

but i beat i was making more torque at 4800 rpms than that motors making at 9000. right now im probably making more torque at 2000 rpms than most turbo b16s are making at 9000.

and now suddenly since theres somebody else on here your not kidding anymore... :lol:

geez, its pointless for me to say anything, cuz theres 2 ppl against, and one for it, so it doesnt really matter now, im wrong either way, untill 2 more ppl come on that agree with me. i guess i should have never said anything to begin with.

If you honestly think the ls and b16 bottom ends can handle the same kind of hp then im all up for learning something. so teach away, why is it that the ls is just as capable?

but i beat i was making more torque at 4800 rpms than that motors making at 9000. right now im probably making more torque at 2000 rpms than most turbo b16s are making at 9000.

Thats irrelevant, cuz if i was even making half the torque at 9k that you make at 2, i would sitll have like twice the hp, and pull the bullshit right outta you.

Originally posted by C32Bperformance


Thats irrelevant, cuz if i was even making half the torque at 9k that you make at 2, i would sitll have like twice the hp, and pull the bullshit right outta you.

???? i seriously doubt you have even half as much horsepower as my car does.
i doubt that your car even makes as much horsepower as mine does torque. (on 118 octane gas its putting out 538 whp and 357 lbs of torque at only 1.4 bar of boost .edit (thats 20.3 pounds of boost and the car can be tuned to around 26 with very little fuel work)

its been said a million times....if b16 motors were better for turbo then people would be dumping gobs of money into their si-r motors for turbo

B16 heads flow better than any other B series head. So if you do LS/VTEC with B16 head thats the best HP making setup. Of course we all know how unreliable an LS/VTEC is. I never seen one last for more than 2 years, but then again the people that do it are always racing them.

Originally posted by PWMAN
B16 heads flow better than any other B series head. So if you do LS/VTEC with B16 head thats the best HP making setup. Of course we all know how unreliable an LS/VTEC is. I never seen one last for more than 2 years, but then again the people that do it are always racing them.

you can make any b series head flow well. ls/vtec turbo is not the best solution always...

you got that 500 hp up in the revs, i was merely stating that your statement about 2k torque didnt mean anything in comparo to torque at 9k

Around here, ppl boost b16s like crazy, its the most popular motor.

Heres the deal, I used to think the ls was the way to go, its all i had my eyes on, i was gonna take the head i had and put the nice ls under it.

I watched b16 guys beat the piss outta their motors and have nothing break, even the boosted ones. Then I see the GSR and Ls guys boost their motors, and throw rods, and bend cranks an i began to get a little curious.

I found what i thought was the answer, the rod/stroke ratio. For a while i thought i was lucky in not having bought that bottom end already and have it junked after breaking it. For a while I started to see the b18 guys fall behind in the racing scene, and i watched even b16s with stock 8k revs beat out the b18s.

Now Im hearing differently again. So like i said before, tell me why the b18 bottom is as good as the b16, cuz i see otherwise here in tampa.

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
you got that 500 hp up in the revs, i was merely stating that your statement about 2k torque didnt mean anything in comparo to torque at 9k

Around here, ppl boost b16s like crazy, its the most popular motor.

Heres the deal, I used to think the ls was the way to go, its all i had my eyes on, i was gonna take the head i had and put the nice ls under it.

I watched b16 guys beat the piss outta their motors and have nothing break, even the boosted ones. Then I see the GSR and Ls guys boost their motors, and throw rods, and bend cranks an i began to get a little curious.

I found what i thought was the answer, the rod/stroke ratio. For a while i thought i was lucky in not having bought that bottom end already and have it junked after breaking it. For a while I started to see the b18 guys fall behind in the racing scene, and i watched even b16s with stock 8k revs beat out the b18s.

Now Im hearing differently again. So like i said before, tell me why the b18 bottom is as good as the b16, cuz i see otherwise here in tampa.

anytime you make a high horsepower engine somethings going to break. if you do it right....stuff breaks less often. all i know is....ive NEVER been beatin by a b16 period. shit. my daily driver n/a ls crx has knocked off 3 2000 si turbo's .
the ls bottom is as good simply because the internals can hold more boost and you dont have to rev the motor high to get power. bigger is better 99.9% of the time

Originally posted by C32Bperformance

Now Im hearing differently again. So like i said before, tell me why the b18 bottom is as good as the b16, cuz i see otherwise here in tampa.

If you don't rev over 7K the LS is just as strong. It wasn't meant to be revved, and it doesn't have to be. Most guys that do LS/VTEC try to scream their motors because they think they have too and thats why it blew up. It makes it's peak HP at 6300, so it makes no sense to rev over 7K anyway.

ok, i can see where your comin from with that, now heres my last arguement.

Im gonna do a little math here to hopefully prove what im trying to say, if it doesnt, then good for everyone cuz i learned somethign and you guys are right. Here goes.

Think about the extra torque an Ls is gonna make compared to the b16. Its about 12.6% (when comparing displacements).

Now lets set some torque standards, do we all agree that it doesnt matter where the torque comes from? aslong as the numbers are consistent with each other?

Lets say this particular ls has 250lb/ft of torque. That would mean the b16 under the same conditions would have 218.25lb/ft of torque.

The ls is going to rev 7000, and make its peak horsepower at 6300? Because of a lack of a dyno, we will put the torque numbers we currently have at the peak hp. Lets also say, that the b16 im describing with a 9k redline will peak at a meek 8200?

By means of TxR/5252=hp ::

The ls will make 299.8 hp. The B16 will make 340.7hp. I suppose thats the only thing left to be proven wrong and im an ls believer again. Thanks.

Peak torque is almost never made at the same RPM as the peak HP.
And displacement isn't the only thing that makes more torque, a longer stroke gives more torque also.

Because of a lack of a dyno, we will put the torque numbers we currently have at the peak hp

change what you like in the math, i think youll find similar results even when you correct everything... Im just not convinced, I see that the B16 is stronger.

Since the B18 makes it power at lower RPMs you can't really compare them the way you did. Because the B16 makes it's peak torque closer to it's peak HP. So my only answer can be just because it revs higher doesn't mean it makes more power.
When you said 12.6%, it's 13.1% actually. Because the B18B1 is 1834 cc and the B16A is 1595 cc. But that doesn't make much difference anyway, come out to 217.25 instead of 218.25. But anyway, this still doesn't take into consideration the stroke difference. So i really don't know what to say anymore, oh well. VTEC must also screw with some things too, when those secondary lobes kick in thats when the B16 finally begins to make some serious power, and of course the LS doesn't have this. So like I said there is just too many factors about this. I could plug everything into my desktop dyno, but of course that doesn't take into account the VTEC so screwed again.:comprage1

If you want to compare it something with VTEC like the B18C1, thats peak torque is at 6200. Peak torque on a B16A is 7000. So take into account that it is only 1797 CC instead, thats 11.3% difference. So 250 Lbs for the B18 makes the B16 have 221.75. Take into account the RPM's and and you get 295 HP for the B18 and 295 for the B16. But the B18 will be faster cuz of the more torque.
I don't think rod/stroke ratio has much to do with how much power an engine makes, unless it's VTEC which allows huge cams to be run which gives you superior top end. So the fact that the B16 is VTEC totally messes up any calculations you or I may make to be able to compare it to any non-VTEC.

And in actuality, that comparison gives more hp to the ls than it would have, since it is non-vtec. It would have a little bit less torque up high like that. Thats as close as you can come in this forum on deciding which motor is better, but i honestly think if (_burn_) had put as much time and money and tuning efforts into a b16, he would be faster.

The b16 makes equal hp as the ls with much, much less boost. And that is not really even considering my original arguement, that it can in fact handle more boost than the ls.

Originally posted by C32Bperformance

The b16 makes equal hp as the ls with much, much less boost. And that is not really even considering my original arguement, that it can in fact handle more boost than the ls.

Well the fact that the B16 makes 30 more HP to begin with doesn't help. Also how is it that a B16 can handle more boost? Certainly not stock for stock, since the B16 has high compression, 10.4:1 VS 9.2:1. You can boost a stock LS 12 PSI, you can boost a B16 Probably 8 PSI. That 4 PSI is going to make that 30 HP difference up, plus the B18 will have more torque and therefore be faster.
And why do people think boosting a VTEC makes it better? NO it does NOT. VTEC causes so much valve overlap that at high RPM's it's hard to make boost.

I dont think however that the calculations i made on the previous post are very inaccurate. VTEC or not, any number of torque can theoretically be at any rpm with mods. So i put that 250lbft pretty lofty for the ls. but even then, you could just figure the hp at the peak torque rpm, which will be less than the peak hp rpm, and the b16 still is faster.

And im not getting into the arguement about how important hp really is. It just is, not peak hp, but hp in a grand scale. Torque needs to happen as fast as possible, and thats what hp is. Im sorry, i do not see it the B16 is stronger all the way.

And why do people think boosting a VTEC makes it better? NO it does NOT. VTEC causes so much valve overlap that at high RPM's it's hard to make boost.

Sorry buddy, thats wrong. You can ask any real engineer or tuner. VTEC helps no matter what. All thats happening is that some, SOME boost is being lost between overlap. You arent having trouble making boost. It boost just fine.

By SOME were tlaking the difference between 130% VE and 133% VE, gimme a break, the torque up in the high revs made possible by VTEC blows away any loss you might have from high overlap.

Oh and i understand that the compression on the LS is much more friendly to turbo, when talking stocker, but we arent, were talking hard boost, were talking tuning, drag racing. Compression can be changed...

There's no replacement for displacement

LOL

How is it that it say's you're offline but you are still replying?

i dont understand that one my self.

Hey, ive been wonderin this, how do you quote a person with their name attached? All i can see to do is that reg quote thing and its got no name attached to it,

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
Hey, ive been wonderin this, how do you quote a person with their name attached? All i can see to do is that reg quote thing and its got no name attached to it,

I don't know, I just click ''quote'' and at the screen you type at it comes up ''originally posted by XXXXX'' with at the beginning and at the end. Maybe it's soemthing in your preferences. ???

oh the [i] stands for italic print, and the [B] stands for bold.

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong PWMAN. I agree with you and shhh_burn all the way on the LS issue, as you probably figured since I started this thread askin about turboing the LS versus LS/Vtec or LS/Vtec turbo. Besides the LS having a stronger bottom end, more torque, and hitting torque at a lower RPM, the Transmisson is also better suited for turbo apps due to the gear ratios it possess, correct?

There is a lot of controversy over this, but IMO longer is better for turbo. So yes the LS tranny is better. You stay in the gear longer alowing the turbo to do a lot of work and make more power, if you have a GSR tranny or ITR tranny you shift quick before it gets a chance to spool very much.
My 87 Dodge Daytona has very long gearing. All factory turbo cars that I know of have had long gearing, like 3000GT VR-4, Eclipse GST, Nissan 300 ZX TT, and Daytona's. Actually, just to really prove it to you, my version on the Daytona is a T1. It makes 146 HP, the next version is a T2, which makes 174 HP. The T2 is considered their starting performance car, (there is also T3 and T4) it has MUCH longer gearing than mine. Now there is a reason OEM manufacturer's put longer gearing in a higher performance car right? yes.

Originally posted by whtteg
I don't know how this would play into a turbo application,but the gsr head is going to have secondary runners on the intake and the B16 head won't. I have seen some guys on teamintegra.com talking about disabling the secondary runners so maybe they are not as good as the regular B16 runners. Just a thought, maybe someone will correct anything that is not true or explain why or why not the secondary runners will help or hurt the performance from a turbo motor.
Wow this thread has gotten (interesting) since my last post. Anyway to answer your question whtteg first you need to understand (and I'm shure you already do, not trying to insult your intelligence) that long and narrow runners favor lower RPM's, and the smaller width helps increase the air speed. Shorter wider runners favor higher RPM's because they have a higher resonant frequency, and the larger diameter allows better air flow. The GSR uses 2 sets of runners with different lengths in one intake manifold in order to have two different peak torques. With the 2 sets of runners overcoming the either or decision. But when your using two sets of runners you get an increase in surface area which diminishes flow quality at higher rpm. You would be better off losing the GSR manifold, and getting an Intake manifold with bigger diameter runners as well as shorter length runners (even over the b16 runners). Hope that clears it up a little. :smile:

Hey, thanks PWMAN. You stated it perfectly. I was thinking along the same lines, but you explained just why it is considered a better suited tranny prefactly. I was thinking that, but for some reason couldn't put it into words. Again, I thank you, shhh_burn, and whtteg for being of much help so far thoughout this entire thread. BTW, shh_burn, is yours is an LS Turbo, not an LS/Vtec turbo, correct? I understand the B16 head is probably the better of the 2 heads for an LS/Vtec, but the reliablity issue I keep hearing is steering me towards an LS Turbo instead of an LS/Vtec turbo. You can still break 400HP without the LS/Vtec (thats of course building it correctly). I just hear mixed reviews on the longevity of LS/Vtec's everywhere I go, so keepin it non-vtec seems the safer bet.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)


fuck you and your small motor
fuck you and your imaginary car. :thefinger

Originally posted by PWMAN


If you don't rev over 7K the LS is just as strong. It wasn't meant to be revved, and it doesn't have to be. Most guys that do LS/VTEC try to scream their motors because they think they have too and thats why it blew up. It makes it's peak HP at 6300, so it makes no sense to rev over 7K anyway.

ls/vtec's with stock internals are built by idiots trying to follow a trend in the "import scene"

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
Thats as close as you can come in this forum on deciding which motor is better, but i honestly think if (_burn_) had put as much time and money and tuning efforts into a b16, he would be faster.

The b16 makes equal hp as the ls with much, much less boost. And that is not really even considering my original arguement, that it can in fact handle more boost than the ls.

im really not trying to be rude.....but you are seriously wrong. the simple fact is that NOTHING NOT EVEN REVS can create power like displacement.... and PLEASE do not tell me how my car would be faster with the same amount of money and time. thats just flat out bullshit. the only way i could get the same kind of power out of a b16 that im pushing is if i stroked the fuck out of it, and then it wouldnt be a b16 technically. btw....my engine is NOT 1.8 liters. it is 2.1 liters. find a b16 that is actually 1.6 liter making 500 to the wheels and ask the person how much money he/she spent on that dart block with bronze head.

Originally posted by C32Bperformance


Sorry buddy, thats wrong. You can ask any real engineer or tuner. VTEC helps no matter what. All thats happening is that some, SOME boost is being lost between overlap. You arent having trouble making boost. It boost just fine.

VTEC DOES NOT MATTER. if you know how vtec works and why it does what it does....youd know that its the aggressive side that makes power. lets just put it this way......
the crane cams i may try out in my car have the effect of the skunk 2 n/a race cams vtec throughout my WHOLE powerband. im running modest crower turbo cams right now and it has a grind similar to many many aftermarket vtec cams agressive lobe. so essentially im getting the vtec you boys crave ALL THE TIME

why is it shh you never anser dbl you always answer all questions accept for his im starting to think your car doesnt exist can you post some pics ?

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

fuck you and your imaginary car. :thefinger

hahaha get off my testicles kid. your gonna get shat on by some "imaginary vdubs also". i already asked john the guy with the turbo vr6 (the slow one) and he wants a piece. you'll like his plates

i already posted an older picture of my car in a previous thread but for your viewing i will post it again. look for an edit as soon as i can find it.http://members.aol.com/pure4130cromoly/burn/burnt.jpg

Originally posted by YOUNGSTER
why is it shh you never anser dbl you always answer all questions accept for his im starting to think your car doesnt exist can you post some pics ?

Just for the record, DblOvrhedCamron saying "fuck you and your imaginary car" isn't a question, it's more or a comment.

ssshhhh (_burn_), your running an LS turbo stroked to 2.1 liters at about 20 psi, correct? I am assuming it is not an LS/Vtec. Can I ask you want all you have done to your motor, what type of turbo and turbo componets, internals, etc, you have in there? It seems like you have a fast and powerful LS, and since I am looking to eventualy do the same thing (hence the purpose of this thread), I am curious as to what all you have done to it. I read somewhere you sholdn't stroke the B18 engines, or was it don't stroke them if you wanna turbo them. I don't remember. Anyways, I noticed you said you had yours stroked. I am curious to your opinion on this, and also why it might have been said if you don't feel it's true. Thanks:smile:

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)


hahaha get off my testicles kid. your gonna get shat on by some "imaginary vdubs also". i already asked john the guy with the turbo vr6 (the slow one) and he wants a piece. you'll like his plates
Considering I built a good bit of his motor, I doubt that. But his comment was uncalled for. (I will agree with that)

I got the impression from reading your threads that your car is daily driven, forgive me but dohc and I are not accustom to seeing low 10 sec. daily driven CRX's. Perhaps this is not the case and I misread something? If it is the case that's very impressive, and I hope you reach your 9 second goal next season. :smile:

(lets try to stay on topic)

Originally posted by hybridsol

Considering I built a good bit of his motor, I doubt that. But his comment was uncalled for. (I will agree with that)

I got the impression from reading your threads that your car is daily driven, forgive me but dohc and I are not accustom to seeing low 10 sec. daily driven CRX's. Perhaps this is not the case and I misread something? If it is the case that's very impressive, and I hope you reach your 9 second goal next season. :smile:

(lets try to stay on topic)

If I'm not mistaken, he only runs 10 PSI on pump gas when he drives it daily. When he goes to the track he puts in race fuel and runs more than 20 PSI. So he really only drives a 12 second car daily, but 10 second car at the track.

Originally posted by PWMAN


If I'm not mistaken, he only runs 10 PSI on pump gas when he drives it daily. When he goes to the track he puts in race fuel and runs more than 20 PSI. So he really only drives a 12 second car daily, but 10 second car at the track.
I'm sorry but 12's to 10.3!!!! sounds a bit unbelievable to me. Just boom! raise the boost to 20 psi and add racing fuel, and wham you run 10.3 at 138 mph. First of all most ppl who run 10's that low run them at 148- mph, secondly hybrid and I maintain a 10 second crx and alot more than that would have to go into a car to hit 10's before a race.

Originally posted by hybridsol

But his comment was uncalled for. (I will agree with that)

Uncalled for yet the truth.:biggrin2:

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

I'm sorry but 12's to 10.3!!!!

10 to 25 PSI?
Going by 10 HP per pound of boost thats 150 HP gain, plenty for 2 seconds faster

According to his claims he makes 500ish WHP when on the race gas, but only 300ish when using pump gas lowing the PSI.

Originally posted by PWMAN


10 to 25 PSI?
Going by 10 HP per pound of boost thats 150 HP gain, plenty for 2 seconds faster
and you believe the motor just adjusts like that at the drop of a hat, and what kind of boost control is he spotting along with ECU. Its possible but far fethched along with his 10.3 at 138 mph........ cmon now......... I believe it when our Token Black Z God comes back with some picks, I'm shure he is as eager as I. (Or next semester when self hybrid and I team up to smoke some dubbs. :iceslolan )

Originally posted by hybridsol

Considering I built a good bit of his motor, I doubt that. But his comment was uncalled for. (I will agree with that)

I got the impression from reading your threads that your car is daily driven, forgive me but dohc and I are not accustom to seeing low 10 sec. daily driven CRX's. Perhaps this is not the case and I misread something? If it is the case that's very impressive, and I hope you reach your 9 second goal next season. :smile:

(lets try to stay on topic)

my car used to be a street car on the weekends. i do have another crx with a basically stock ls motor in it as a daily driver. that may be the car your thinking of. but for the record....my car is NOT a daily driven 10 second car. my daily driver is a low mid 14 second car at best

Originally posted by PWMAN


If I'm not mistaken, he only runs 10 PSI on pump gas when he drives it daily. When he goes to the track he puts in race fuel and runs more than 20 PSI. So he really only drives a 12 second car daily, but 10 second car at the track.

i dont drive it daily but yes..when i did drive it daily it was only at aroun 10 pounds.

Originally posted by PWMAN


10 to 25 PSI?
Going by 10 HP per pound of boost thats 150 HP gain, plenty for 2 seconds faster

actually 150 isnt enough for 2 seconds lol but my car makes more than that so you were right in some since.

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

and you believe the motor just adjusts like that at the drop of a hat, and what kind of boost control is he spotting along with ECU. Its possible but far fethched along with his 10.3 at 138 mph........ cmon now......... I believe it when our Token Black Z God comes back with some picks, I'm shure he is as eager as I. (Or next semester when self hybrid and I team up to smoke some dubbs. :iceslolan )

um i dont beleive that..... im using stage 4 hondata and i have 12 different maps for the car. the crx is a bitch to tune. ive never said otherwise.

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
ssshhhh (_burn_), your running an LS turbo stroked to 2.1 liters at about 20 psi, correct? I am assuming it is not an LS/Vtec. Can I ask you want all you have done to your motor, what type of turbo and turbo componets, internals, etc, you have in there? It seems like you have a fast and powerful LS, and since I am looking to eventualy do the same thing (hence the purpose of this thread), I am curious as to what all you have done to it. I read somewhere you sholdn't stroke the B18 engines, or was it don't stroke them if you wanna turbo them. I don't remember. Anyways, I noticed you said you had yours stroked. I am curious to your opinion on this, and also why it might have been said if you don't feel it's true. Thanks:smile:

it was lsvtec turbo for a few weeks but it was too much of a headache. but yes its a sleeved 2.1 litre ls, ls head with 5angle pp job and manley oversized valves hondasavers valve springs, align bored crank journals,knifeendged crank, crower cams, crower rods, je 9:1 pistons,prodrive oil pump, aem fuel rail, the turbo is a precision sc54. a garret t3/60-1 is going on as soon as i get it ordered. turbo components?? im running a fullrace prostreet equal length manifold, tial 40mm wastegate tial 50 mm bov.
as for my opinion on stroking ls t's....my opinion doesnt matter. i've done it and until something serious happens to mine i feel no reason to say that it should or shouldnt be done.

EDIT
heres a "cleaned up" list for the eyes.
88 crx si (1910 pounds w/o driver)
95 B18B 85 mm bore sleeved duhhh
9:1 forged pistons
crower rods
aline bored crank journals
ACL bearings
balanced everything
5 angled port N polished ls head
oversized manley valves
hondasavers springs
"stage 2" crower turbo spec cam
fullrace prostreet turbo manifold (equal length duhh)
ball bearing precisionturbo sc54
3 inch custom downpipe
tial 40mm wastegate/50mm bov
homemade charge pipe and intercooler piping
"jdm" trust intercooler
hondata w/data logging
rc injectors
useless z10

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)


it was lsvtec turbo for a few weeks but it was too much of a headache. but yes its a sleeved 2.1 litre ls, ls head with 5angle pp job and manley oversized valves hondasavers valve springs, align bored crank journals,knifeendged crank, crower cams, crower rods, je 9:1 pistons,prodrive oil pump, aem fuel rail, the turbo is a precision sc54. a garret t3/60-1 is going on as soon as i get it ordered. turbo components?? im running a fullrace prostreet equal length manifold, tial 40mm wastegate tial 50 mm bov.
as for my opinion on stroking ls t's....my opinion doesnt matter. i've done it and until something serious happens to mine i feel no reason to say that it should or shouldnt be done.

Thanks for the info ssshhhh (_burn_). That's a good list you got there. It does mean something to men, also, that you had an ls/vtec turbo at one point, but switched it back to a regular ls turbo after a few weeks. If you switched it back after it was done, it must of been some headache. Lately I've been leaning towards an ls turbo with no lsvtec eventually myself. That kind of makes me feel a little more sound with that train of thought.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)
the turbo is a precision sc54.
the sc54 has a t3 style housing in .48 or .63 A/R, or Tangential turbine housing in .58 .68 or .81 A/R.

you posted a picture of a .70 housing in this thread.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=107020&highlight=ssshhhh+burn

The SC series turbos are all hybrid T3/T4 turbochargers.

that was a dsm freinds turbo which i bought but sold back to him. i thought i edited that picture out but i guess not.
this is the sc54
http://members.cox.net/pwrvtec/JessePictures/TurboIn.jpg http://members.cox.net/pwrvtec/JessePictures/TurboOut.jpg http://members.cox.net/pwrvtec/JessePictures/TurboExtrude.jpg and the block almost a year and a half ago http://members.cox.net/pwrvtec/JessePictures/LS84.5mmTopMed.jpg

Hmmmmmm.....

Ahem....

Now hold on there SON... Who in in the piss is Jesse? You know him? Why in the world do you have pictures of Jesse's motor up on this here interweb magik viewin box I call a Gateway?

I know where you're getting those Engine pics.

Son... stealin somebodies pictures is just wrong. I've been shootin people down off the net like this long before you were swimmin in your daddy's sack. You say you've got a CRX with turbo and all that jazz. Yet on this site a guy by the name of Jesse has a motor that looks alot like the one you're posting:

http://members.cox.net/pwrvtec/jessecivic.htm

And it's clearly a 2000 Civic Si. Not a CRX. And no place on the website does it have a 'team member' who has a CRX.

Dont think you've ever stated that you were on a Team of any sort.

Explain yourself Mr. Man.

Originally posted by RedNeck383
Hmmmmmm.....

Ahem....

Now hold on there SON... Who in in the piss is Jesse? You know him? Why in the world do you have pictures of Jesse's motor up on this here interweb magik viewin box I call a Gateway?

I know where you're getting those Engine pics.

Son... stealin somebodies pictures is just wrong. I've been shootin people down off the net like this long before you were swimmin in your daddy's sack. You say you've got a CRX with turbo and all that jazz. Yet on this site a guy by the name of Jesse has a motor that looks alot like the one you're posting:

http://members.cox.net/pwrvtec/jessecivic.htm

And it's clearly a 2000 Civic Si. Not a CRX. And no place on the website does it have a 'team member' who has a CRX.

Dont think you've ever stated that you were on a Team of any sort.

Explain yourself Mr. Man.

OUCH.

Claiming somebody else's work/parts/times for your own is a :nono:.

damn ssssssshhhhhhhhh you got burned lol jk thats kinda wierd dont you think.

Originally posted by RedNeck383
Hmmmmmm.....

Ahem....

Now hold on there SON... Who in in the piss is Jesse? You know him? Why in the world do you have pictures of Jesse's motor up on this here interweb magik viewin box I call a Gateway?

I know where you're getting those Engine pics.

Son... stealin somebodies pictures is just wrong. I've been shootin people down off the net like this long before you were swimmin in your daddy's sack. You say you've got a CRX with turbo and all that jazz. Yet on this site a guy by the name of Jesse has a motor that looks alot like the one you're posting:

http://members.cox.net/pwrvtec/jessecivic.htm

And it's clearly a 2000 Civic Si. Not a CRX. And no place on the website does it have a 'team member' who has a CRX.

Dont think you've ever stated that you were on a Team of any sort.

Explain yourself Mr. Man.

:owned:

i got owned. o well. im actually 14 years old and cant even drive yet. you guys were fun though.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)
i got owned. o well. im actually 14 years old and cant even drive yet. you guys were fun though.


HA, Well I'm glad to see you can admit to being called out...

To be honest you know some good stuff to keep us guess for this long.

My friends have been trying to nail you for a while... you just happened to slip... Then we came down on you like a ton of Bricks
:bricks1: hehe.

Fun times. :tongue:

Yea this thread went on for quite a while :lol:

Originally posted by RedNeck383



HA, Well I'm glad to see you can admit to being called out...

To be honest you know some good stuff to keep us guess for this long.

My friends have been trying to nail you for a while... you just happened to slip... Then we came down on you like a ton of Bricks
:bricks1: hehe.

Fun times. :tongue:

haha right oon....this name has been used by about 5 people. i originally made this name to fuck with people because me and a few freinds stumbled onto the site and saw at least 30 threads discussing cold air intakes and thought it was just a bunch of retards. we knew someone was going to eventually right click :properties to one of the pics and see the cars but o well. we do know what we're talking about (except john...) but the only fast car between us is currently awaiting fuel managment (for the past 8 months).
to dualoverheadcamron....i really dont have any shit with you as you might have picked up on...but if you still want to come down and run the volkswagons i was talking about(which REALLY do exist), your welcome to. 3 of the guys down here want to run.

Okay now, seriously. Someone who isn't fucking around. MY boy here who is a mechanic at a shop in the area still tells me to go ls/vtec turbo with a gsr head. He swears thats the combo I should go for. He swears buy it. He'll do others, but he swears by that one. So seriosuly, whats the deal here. Whtteg? hybridsol? someone? I am not trying to be a so-called "dumbass." I am honestly building an engine. And as you know, thats a shitload of money, well over 5 grand for all of it, turbo etc. well over that. So I am trying to get my facts straight before I go and spend the $$. Also, I know I read in a book by Sport Compact Car that it is bad to stroke a honda engine. If I remember correct, it was because of the rod- stroke ratio, I could be wrong. Anyone know? I am looking for serious info here, not people screwing around. This is pretty much the same info I have been looking for the entire time. So now that we know who on here was screwing around, can people please actually stop screwing around here so I can figure this shit out and start planning my engine more. Thank you to all who help

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)
i got owned. o well. im actually 14 years old and cant even drive yet. you guys were fun though.
damn I guessed 12, so your almost hitting puberty. Time to grow some balls and tell the truth. :loser:

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)
haha right oon....this name has been used by about 5 people. i originally made this name to fuck with people because me and a few freinds stumbled onto the site and saw at least 30 threads discussing cold air intakes and thought it was just a bunch of retards. we knew someone was going to eventually right click roperties to one of the pics and see the cars but o well. we do know what we're talking about (except john...) but the only fast car between us is currently awaiting fuel managment (for the past 8 months).
to dualoverheadcamron....i really dont have any shit with you as you might have picked up on...but if you still want to come down and run the volkswagons i was talking about(which REALLY do exist), your welcome to. 3 of the guys down here want to run.
I don't believe a word you say......

Bunch of retards huh? There are 3 ppl in this thread that have more automotive knowledge than anyone you've ever met or are going to meet. There are actually quite few ppl in this forum, that I'd put money on matching know-how against pretty much anyone. :bigthumb:

You may not have a problem with me, but I have a problem with you. I have a problem with liars taking up my bandwidth, and posting suggestions on motor swaps they know nothing about. :comprage1

As for your friends tell them to bring cash or pink slips handy. :lol: (or I could just take one of their wings home, I love ripping those things off.) Looks like the CRX could see some action soon. :evillol: (doubt I'll need it though)






What an assclown.........

Originally posted by RedNeck383



HA, Well I'm glad to see you can admit to being called out...

To be honest you know some good stuff to keep us guess for this long.

we would have had this fucker three threads ago if hybrid would have grew a set and called him out. No one listens to me. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
Okay now, seriously. Someone who isn't fucking around. MY boy here who is a mechanic at a shop in the area still tells me to go ls/vtec turbo with a gsr head. He swears thats the combo I should go for. He swears buy it. He'll do others, but he swears by that one. So seriosuly, whats the deal here. Whtteg? hybridsol? someone? I am not trying to be a so-called "dumbass." I am honestly building an engine. And as you know, thats a shitload of money, well over 5 grand for all of it, turbo etc. well over that. So I am trying to get my facts straight before I go and spend the $$. Also, I know I read in a book by Sport Compact Car that it is bad to stroke a honda engine. If I remember correct, it was because of the rod- stroke ratio, I could be wrong. Anyone know? I am looking for serious info here, not people screwing around. This is pretty much the same info I have been looking for the entire time. So now that we know who on here was screwing around, can people please actually stop screwing around here so I can figure this shit out and start planning my engine more. Thank you to all who help

Well I have no personal experience with ls/vtec so i don't know the answer about to go for it or something else. I have known a few ppl who have had a ls/vtec and they like it alot and I know a few ppl who have had one and say they would never get another. I think that as long as the head is properly matched to the block and the oil pump is upgraded and the internals are built and everthing is put together right you will be fine. I think ls/vtec gets a bad name from ppl who put it together wrong. As far as a grs head I would go for a b16 head it will be better for turbo, unless you are going to do head work like port/polish etc. Regaurdless of what head you decide on get a good intake manifold and get some turbo cams from crower, skunk2, toda(not sure if they make them or not , but great company) etc. And as far as stroking a honda motor , t would be better to just bore and sleeve it b/c yes the r/s ratio will be worse than it already is. Also put a girdle on the maincaps, this will create a little more rigidity for the bottom end and help keep it together, also don't go over 8k rpm the ls/vtec will destroy itsef in due time if you are going over 8k but you will have a turbo so no need it reving past 8k anyway. Hope this helps and hope you find more info from others as well.:bigthumb:

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

I don't believe a word you say......

Bunch of retards huh? There are 3 ppl in this thread that have more automotive knowledge than anyone you've ever met or are going to meet. There are actually quite few ppl in this forum, that I'd put money on matching know-how against pretty much anyone. :bigthumb:

You may not have a problem with me, but I have a problem with you. I have a problem with liars taking up my bandwidth, and posting suggestions on motor swaps they know nothing about. :comprage1

As for your friends tell them to bring cash or pink slips handy. :lol: (or I could just take one of their wings home, I love ripping those things off.) Looks like the CRX could see some action soon. :evillol: (doubt I'll need it though)


actually...he wasnt refering to you or anyone on this thread as being retards...he was refering to the mass group of people on some of the other forums posting 15 page discussions on intake tubes. we have never said that you or any of your freinds were "retarded". and please dont talk to me about knowing more about automobiles. rich.....the guy that posted on this name and said he was 14, knows more about hondas than 80 percent of the people on this site that have been driving hondas since they've had their license. and actually....since you feel like being a dick. ill waste all the bandwidth i want posting my advice on swaps i know nothing about....
this is the internet captain. we can do whatever the fuck we want.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)

actually...he wasnt refering to you or anyone on this thread as being retards...he was refering to the mass group of people on some of the other forums posting 15 page discussions on intake tubes. we have never said that you or any of your freinds were "retarded". and please dont talk to me about knowing more about automobiles. rich.....the guy that posted on this name and said he was 14, knows more about hondas than 80 percent of the people on this site that have been driving hondas since they've had their license. and actually....since you feel like being a dick. ill waste all the bandwidth i want posting my advice on swaps i know nothing about....
this is the internet captain. we can do whatever the fuck we want. If your friend rich is the one who posted the bogus times and and the bullshit specs, then he knows jack shit about honda and even less about trap speeds in a quarter mile. I'm sorry that i'm being a dick but eckoman_pdx is looking for help with a swap he was also trying to find out how reliable LS/VTEC is. You've not even done the swap and don't have the car, and your giving him advice? YES, that pisses me off! He was taking your word that this swap was safe and there are no problems b/c you were claiming to have a reliable one. Thats dispicable you should be banned. :mad:

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron
If your friend rich is the one who posted the bogus times and and the bullshit specs, then he knows jack shit about honda and even less about trap speeds in a quarter mile. I'm sorry that i'm being a dick but eckoman_pdx is looking for help with a swap he was also trying to find out how reliable LS/VTEC is. You've not even done the swap and don't have the car, and your giving him advice? YES, that pisses me off! He was taking your word that this swap was safe and there are no problems b/c you were claiming to have a reliable one. Thats dispicable you should be banned. :mad: i said we know about cars...

ive had a built all motor lsvtec old school integra so yes i do have some experience with ls/vtec. one of the guys posting under this name actually knows "jesse" the guy with the lsvtec turbo civic si putting down over 500 to the wheels and almost all of the info he has been using has come from jesse.....who supposedly did the entire thing himself

Hey, thanks for giving me real advice whtteg. Thats for being honest and letting me know what you know about and what you speculate. Thats for helping out. I appericate honesty. Also, thanks for the back-up DblOvrhedCamron, very much appericated. I agree. Posing as someone you are not and lying is dispicable enough, but handing out bogus advice is wrong and dishonest. You are correct, I am trying to find out as much information, fact, etc as I can about the ls/vtec turbo vs regular ls turbo before I start putting money into building my ls up. Especially since thats the current motor in the car, so once I start to build it up, the car is going no-where fast until I am done. Again, thanks to all who are honest, and all who are backing me up like whtteg, DblOvrhedCamron, etc. Anyone with actual knowledge who wants to join the disscusion and talk about what they know, your contributions will be appericated. and I agree DblOvrhedCamron, something should be done about ssshhhh (_burn_), ban him, expose him to all of af, something. I mean, this thread has a ton of innaccurate info or info that he had no clue about. Just a lot of wasted bandwith. I started the thread to get honest advice, not to waste the servers bandwith with bs. Again, thanks to all who provde help and honest information.

BTW, I am not trying to piss anyone off or step on anyone's feet. I am just looking for people with honest, realible, information to contriubte to the thread, not people messing around.

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx
Okay now, seriously. Someone who isn't fucking around. MY boy here who is a mechanic at a shop in the area still tells me to go ls/vtec turbo with a gsr head. He swears thats the combo I should go for. He swears buy it. He'll do others, but he swears by that one. So seriosuly, whats the deal here. Whtteg? hybridsol? someone? I am not trying to be a so-called "dumbass." I am honestly building an engine. And as you know, thats a shitload of money, well over 5 grand for all of it, turbo etc. well over that. So I am trying to get my facts straight before I go and spend the $$. Also, I know I read in a book by Sport Compact Car that it is bad to stroke a honda engine. If I remember correct, it was because of the rod- stroke ratio, I could be wrong. Anyone know? I am looking for serious info here, not people screwing around. This is pretty much the same info I have been looking for the entire time. So now that we know who on here was screwing around, can people please actually stop screwing around here so I can figure this shit out and start planning my engine more. Thank you to all who help
I've helped with an LS VTEC swap but am not really that farmiliar with it, CJ's done one, no turbo though. But he's probably the smartest person I know when it comes to turbo's (give the man some insight). He's pretty good with that shit. I really don't know what to tell you about the head? The b16a head seems to be the better way to go though. Or atleast thats what everyone says. (lower CR).

PS CJ is hybridsol. (Sorry) :biggrin:

haha its funny how many people agreed with my info i know nothing about and thats completely false and how a couple people even got "schooled" on false info about gearing and they instant messaged me and apoligized to me about saying that i was wrong. ooooooo the humor in all of this.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)
haha its funny how many people agreed with my info i know nothing about and thats completely false and how a couple people even got "schooled" on false info about gearing and they instant messaged me and apoligized to me about saying that i was wrong. ooooooo the humor in all of this.
your still here?
where and why is that humorous? I called you out from the beginning.

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

your still here?
where and why is that humorous? I called you out from the beginning.

Me too, over in the Street Racing forum...Your quarter mile MPHs were so far off it was humerous:rolleyes:

But anyways...I wish one of the old mods here was still around, Baldy. He lives around me. He had a professionally built LS/Vtec in his teg, and it gave him NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS. I've also assisted in the build of one, and granted it runs fine with no issues, but isn't anything super impressive. The way I see it is this...You have, let's say, a 50% chance of it working right. If it does you have a decently running car, that makes decent hp and tq. If it doesn't work that's obviously bad b/c you'll constantly be putting money into it, like Baldy was, or you'll just end up scrapping it after wasting a lot of time and money. To me it's not worth the risk. You can get more power out of a straight b18(I know CJ will agree with me here:biggrin:). That's just my opinion though.

Self, Hey thanx man. You hit the nail on the head for why I have been asking about the LS/Vtec this whole thread. I've heard mixed reviews out it's relaiblity, and I wasn't about to start one with no good info on it. Still trying to figure it all out, and not just LS/Vtec, but what in all I want to do. I mean, turbo. built internals, etc thats given. I just want it figured out before I start as best I can. That way I'll have considerly less suprises almog the way, you know what I mean? And Seriously, someone outta ban that clown that was faking in where, pretending to be who he is not.

ssshhhh (_burn_) :

I was the one that was shown this thread and right-clicked on your supposed pic and found out where it belongs.

You are a despicable fraud who reads about cars on the internet, and think you know them. Go buy some school clothes or something...summer's almost over.

eckoman_pdx:

One of my better friends has a shop here in AZ, and he is a Honda specialist. Between him and everybody else I know that has done the swap, I know to only recommend this swap if you have plenty of engine parts and/or engines laying about your garage.

It's been pretty consistent, but as far as I have seen, 6 months seem to be the average time-period when you have to take the motor apart or close to it due to problems. Unless you're going with highly-forged, highly expensive materials for the internals, don't do it. Since you're going to be spending a lot of money on it in the long run anyway, you'd probably be better-off with a turbo-LS set-up, or if you want to go all-motor, a built b18 or a stroked b16 will go a long way. Somebody else can say Type-R motor, but IMHO, you could spend the extra money on a b16 and have better motor. But if you wan't bragging rights then yeah b18c5/b18c(JDM) all the way.

Hope that helps.

carrrnuttt , thanks a lot. That actually does help. Yeah, by the time you spend all that moeny, every 6 months, that would get bad. I think an LS- Turbo, or even all-motor ls would be better. Definately more reliable than 6 months if done correct. I think I am leaning towards turbo though. I know a proper built all-motor can rock, but I am partial to turbo's:biggrin: Again, thanks for the info, it does help. Thanks for being honest too. Thanks to all who have been honest, instead of fruadulantly posing as someone you are not. Anyways, so yea, I am thinking turbo-ls. I've heard too much negative about the ls-vtec, including from the guy I know who put my swap in. Of course, he didn't care to tell me why it was bad to do the ls-vtec. Just that, "it is, don't do it." And thats how this whole darn thing got started. Anyways, now I can concentrate on lookin into turbo's (or all-motor if I choose, but I don't it), lol. Thanx for your help.:wink:

now I feel like an ass, where the hell is CJ....... any day now bro.......:biggrin2:

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron
now I feel like an ass, where the hell is CJ....... any day now bro.......:biggrin2:


It's all good, I no hurry, lol. From the number of posts this thread has accumulated, I get the feeling it's gonna hang around for a while:biggrin: while we wait for CJ, anyone have an opinion on what turbo's they like:biggrin: I know I'll eventually get around to checkin out the maps and junk on a bunch, but haven't had the time recently, lol.

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx

.....anyone have an opinion on what turbo's they like?

HKS GT2530 Good power, that if tuned right can result in no lag.

179 REPLIES? I don't even want to know.....

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)
haha its funny how many people agreed with my info i know nothing about and thats completely false and how a couple people even got "schooled" on false info about gearing and they instant messaged me and apoligized to me about saying that i was wrong. ooooooo the humor in all of this.
Most ppl knew you had posted false info, at least RN, DOHC, and I did (its seems so did self and carrrnuttt). The reason none of us said anything to you is called common curtousy. We all see bogus posts daily, very few times do we confront that person. But seeing as most of us talk on IM ppl's names come up frequently.

Originally posted by Self
I wish one of the old mods here was still around, Baldy. He lives around me. He had a professionally built LS/Vtec in his teg, and it gave him NOTHING BUT PROBLEMS. I've also assisted in the build of one, and granted it runs fine with no issues, but isn't anything super impressive. The way I see it is this...You have, let's say, a 50% chance of it working right. If it does you have a decently running car, that makes decent hp and tq. If it doesn't work that's obviously bad b/c you'll constantly be putting money into it, like Baldy was, or you'll just end up scrapping it after wasting a lot of time and money. To me it's not worth the risk. You can get more power out of a straight b18(I know CJ will agree with me here). That's just my opinion though.
I do agree, especially if your equipping the vehicle with a turbo. You have to be a perfectionist to build the perfect LS/VTEC, and if your having someone else build it, its hard to assure yourself he's done the work to the best of his or her ability. My advice is to go C1 work with the LS or get a b16, that is if your still going turbo and not doing the swap yourself. As for the turbo, piece one together its alot cheaper than actually buying a kit.

Sorry for the late reply, work has been time consuming. :smile:

CJ, thanx for your help and REAL info. To the guy that asked...179 replies because some 14 year old kid (or around there) was posing as someone else and flooding the thread with bad info. As a result, conficted answered and no real info. Since he was finally exposed by a few people who where kind enough to call him on it, the thread is finally starting to get some actual info that is helpful. As for the turbo/swap CJ, I already have the full-LS swap in there, 97 B18B1 swap. I had a few knowledgable few guys I know who have a shop in seattle do it for me. I absolutly love the swap, had it for a year, and it really moves in the lighter civic chassis. Unofrtuanly one of them isnt there now, though that confused me since he was 1/3 owner. Hence the thread here, since I can't get his advice now. I am going to go striaght LS with turbo, by that I mean fully-built LS (No LS/Vtec!!!) turbo'd. Thanx for all the help. See, it really didn't take long for me to get somewhere once the fake stopped lying in here did it. Also, thanx for your opinion on the turbo spooleffect, I'll look into it and see if I like it and if it fits in with what I am planning.

Originally posted by hybridsol

I do agree, especially if your equipping the vehicle with a turbo. You have to be a perfectionist to build the perfect LS/VTEC, and if your having someone else build it, its hard to assure yourself he's done the work to the best of his or her ability. My advice is to go C1 work with the LS or get a b16, that is if your still going turbo and not doing the swap yourself. As for the turbo, piece one together its alot cheaper than actually buying a kit.

Sorry for the late reply, work has been time consuming. :smile:
3 years later.

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

3 years later.

I agree.... some people need to hop back into reality and realise that money doesn't fly out of their ass. Out of everbody that says they plan on getting a b16 or a turbo or whatever, less that 1% probably acutally do it.

Originally posted by spooleffect


I agree.... some people need to hop back into reality and realise that money doesn't fly out of their ass. Out of everbody that says they plan on getting a b16 or a turbo or whatever, less that 1% probably acutally do it.

Okay Flyboy, He was not refering to ME there, and rippin on me, or refering to me not doing anything or "waiting 3 years." CJ is his bud, who he said a while ago would be of help on the topic. CJ didn't post after he said that for awhile. At the end of CJ's post, he said "sorry for the late reply, work has been time consuming." We have had enough BS and crap in this thread that has dragged it's ass out way longer than one would have thought, so leave the BS at the door, and don't post rude comments insulting others, espeically when you are way off base in your "agreement insult." 3 years later refers to the lateness of CJ's post, not to me doing all this "3 years later." If you feel the need to contribute meaningless junk, at least read and understand all the post. This thread has had so F'd up shit. I should know, I started the damn thread, so I have read it all. Don't go off making comments about "some ppl" which is obviously refering to me, when you don't know me. You just end up lookin like the ass yourself.

Originally posted by eckoman_pdx


OKay Flyboy, He was not refering to ME there, and rippin on me, or refering to me not doing anything or "waiting 3 years. CJ is his bud, who he said a while ago would be of help on the topic. CJ didn't post after he said that for awhile. At the end of CJ's post, he said "sorry for the late reply, work has been time consuming." He have had enough BS and crap in this thread that has dragged it's ass out way longer than one would have thought, so least the BS at the door, and don't post rude comments insulting others, espeically when you are way off base in your "agreement insult." 3 years later refers to the lateness of CJ's post, not to me doing all this "3 years later." If you feel the need to contribute meaningless junk, at least read and understand all the posts since you left off first. Othewise, you look like the first. Don't go off making comments about "some ppl" which is obviously refering to me, when you don't know me. You just end up lookin like the ass yourself.

Sorry Dude I wasn't directing it towards you, I simply misunderstood the post. I was basically responding to the imense amout of posts that people make saying their gonna have a daily driven 500hp Civic so they need to know what kinda VTEC engine will work with a T72 and a 200 shot of NOS. Ive been here a month have seen Hundreds of the exact same threads.

Sorry for the Mixup

It's okay dude. Yea, too many ppl in think they wanna do something to their car cuz it's cool and they wanna be "cool." Then they try it without looking into it or knowing the first thing. I just hate it when ppl see my legit questions and pigion-hole me as that type, which I assure you I am not. I don't expect this car to be a 500hp daily-driven beast. Heck, There's no way I am daily driving it once it gets that engine fully built. I already have the engine, tranny, ecu, etc I want in the car. Already have the basic idea of where I am going, was gettin trying to get adive so I could compare and figure the route to take. LS/Vtec has been ruled out. I know what I want/need to do to the internals, etc. Looking into a lotta stuff. I am now consetrating on which Turbo I want. I don't plan to rush into building an engine, thats a good way to F it up. Also, as a said before, the reason for this posts insame lenght? Jerks postin crap and mis-info, and contrdicting crap you know isn't quite right, so the same junk keeps getting asked. There was a 13 year old in here trying to pose as someone who knew, and that really drew it out, since all that crap cluttered the leight info. Know that the fakes are gone, it was a fresh start, and things actually have been getting figured out quick now, thanks to real people and not lying jerks trying to mess things up. This car is my hobby, it's my passion to customize it. Sure, you can't do it all in one day unless you are made of money. So you plan it out while saving up, so when the day comes, you do it correct. It's always more costly to do the same job twice.

bump
Some good stuff in here just skip pages 4-11, some dumbass kid

DoubleTap

bump
Some good stuff in here just skip pages 4-11, some dumbass kid

DoubleTap

Yea, that dumbass kid really slowed up the progress of my trend way back when it started...still your right...you skip over his dumb ass and this thread was very informative.....on a side note....I remember what it was about the GSR head...that I couldn't remember when this thread was active.....some engine builders prefer the GSR head due to the quench area of the head....I beilive it was a more complete combustion...I could be wrong, I can't remember that exactly. I'd have to go read about it again. But yeah, when the thread was talkin about B16A heads vs GSR heads for the LS/Vtec, I couldn't remember what it was about the GSR head that was good or more preferable to some engine builders....it was the quench area....now beyond that...I don't remember...so it doesn't help out much, but at least I remembered...I ment to post it soon, but the thread slowed so I never got around to it.