Which Model? Express or G
moliva1568
01-31-2012, 02:51 PM
I looked for a similar thread and couldn't find anything. I'm looking for a used conversion van and I was curious on peoples opinions. I like the look of the older vans (G) better than the newer vans (express). However, I want the one that would be most dependable and repair friendly. The 1/2 3/4 ton issue doesn't really matter to me i think. I don't tow anything and have no intentions of doing so. As for interior, i like the plush seats look and ample wood trim which i see only in the older models. I plan on updating electronics in whichever I get so that's not an issue either. Can anyone offer pros and cons on either model in terms of driveability and reliability? Any specific years to avoid altogether?
Thanks
Thanks
MT-2500
02-03-2012, 02:37 PM
I looked for a similar thread and couldn't find anything. I'm looking for a used conversion van and I was curious on peoples opinions. I like the look of the older vans (G) better than the newer vans (express). However, I want the one that would be most dependable and repair friendly. The 1/2 3/4 ton issue doesn't really matter to me i think. I don't tow anything and have no intentions of doing so. As for interior, i like the plush seats look and ample wood trim which i see only in the older models. I plan on updating electronics in whichever I get so that's not an issue either. Can anyone offer pros and cons on either model in terms of driveability and reliability? Any specific years to avoid altogether?
Thanks
What year and mileage are you kooking at?
Your best bet is to take what van you are looking at to your mechainc/repair shop and have it checked out.
Thanks
What year and mileage are you kooking at?
Your best bet is to take what van you are looking at to your mechainc/repair shop and have it checked out.
MagicRat
02-04-2012, 01:03 AM
I really like full size vans - far more versatile than a pick-up truck, really cheap to buy used, cheap to fix, cheap to insure, especially the G-vans.
The Express vans are significantly more sophisticated and better than the G in terms of chassis, body,handling, HVAC, instrumentation, electrical, rust -resistance etc.
Alternately, the G-vans are very, very straightforward and easy to fix. It takes about 5 minutes to get the doghouse cover off, once its off, engine access is quite good. Surprisingly, the G-van is the easiest vehicle I've ever come across for engine and trans swaps. All the components are traditional, old-schooll GM, well made, and cheap to replace/service
The biggest difference is the E is separate chassis with a rubber-isolated body, like your Pontiac limo, where the G has an unusual heavy stamped steel frame welded to the body. Also the G's sheet metal seems to be heavier and thicker, because the entire body is structural. But it could just be the HSS that the E van is made with.
Anyways, the E van seems to have a bit more isolation from road noise and vibration, however, a properly upholstered and carpeted G van is luxury-car quiet, except for a bit of wind noise around the A-pillars.
The G-van has better forward visibility due to a lower dashboard and smaller hood than the E. Also the G-van appears to me to be larger inside, with a wider and longer cargo area, and a slightly lower floor.
The G-van came in a relatively -rare short wheel base (110"). These short G-vans are about 3 ft shorter than the standard ones, but are worth a look. They are significantly more manoeverable and somewhat easier to drive in urban settings. They are hundreds of lbs lighter, so the accelerate, stop and corner better, too.
The E van never came in such a short version.
The G-van dates back to late-1970 but was steadily upgraded over the years. Most of the upgrades centered around the transmission, electronic engine and trans controls, upgraded dashboards, instruments and HVAC.So, be prepared, if you look at older vans, you may be faced with non-overdrive transmissions, carburetors and (no kidding) instrument clusters out of a Chevette!!
If you choose a G-van, get the newest one you can find ('96 was the last year). I prefer the '94 to '96, with the drivers side airbag.
Also, try to get as many options as you can. Any 6-cyl engine is a bit overtaxed. The 5.7 liter is a much better choice.
Especially important is the upgraded HVAc, especially with A/C. Most of the older vans got more ventilation ducts, rear heat and rear A/C when one chose the upgrade. Most older base-models HVAC is inadequate, and require vigorous use of pop-out rear windows etc just to get some decent airflow, especially to the rear seats.
If one pops for a conversion or passenger van, get the 3/4 ton model. All the extra seats, carpets, sound insulation adds weight. Throw in 4 adults and luggage, and the 1/2 ton versions wallow around too much. I think most conversion and passenger versions are 3/4 ton anyways.
The 3/4 ton version also gets you significantly upgraded brakes all around (at least on the older ones) with bigger rotors, calipers, drums and shoes.
Generally, I think you should get the best-condition van you can afford, regardless of G or E. Of course, the Express was a redesign intended to correct some of the shortcomings of the G. However, a well -equipped G compares quite well to an E van, and is cheaper and easier to fix, to boot.
The Express vans are significantly more sophisticated and better than the G in terms of chassis, body,handling, HVAC, instrumentation, electrical, rust -resistance etc.
Alternately, the G-vans are very, very straightforward and easy to fix. It takes about 5 minutes to get the doghouse cover off, once its off, engine access is quite good. Surprisingly, the G-van is the easiest vehicle I've ever come across for engine and trans swaps. All the components are traditional, old-schooll GM, well made, and cheap to replace/service
The biggest difference is the E is separate chassis with a rubber-isolated body, like your Pontiac limo, where the G has an unusual heavy stamped steel frame welded to the body. Also the G's sheet metal seems to be heavier and thicker, because the entire body is structural. But it could just be the HSS that the E van is made with.
Anyways, the E van seems to have a bit more isolation from road noise and vibration, however, a properly upholstered and carpeted G van is luxury-car quiet, except for a bit of wind noise around the A-pillars.
The G-van has better forward visibility due to a lower dashboard and smaller hood than the E. Also the G-van appears to me to be larger inside, with a wider and longer cargo area, and a slightly lower floor.
The G-van came in a relatively -rare short wheel base (110"). These short G-vans are about 3 ft shorter than the standard ones, but are worth a look. They are significantly more manoeverable and somewhat easier to drive in urban settings. They are hundreds of lbs lighter, so the accelerate, stop and corner better, too.
The E van never came in such a short version.
The G-van dates back to late-1970 but was steadily upgraded over the years. Most of the upgrades centered around the transmission, electronic engine and trans controls, upgraded dashboards, instruments and HVAC.So, be prepared, if you look at older vans, you may be faced with non-overdrive transmissions, carburetors and (no kidding) instrument clusters out of a Chevette!!
If you choose a G-van, get the newest one you can find ('96 was the last year). I prefer the '94 to '96, with the drivers side airbag.
Also, try to get as many options as you can. Any 6-cyl engine is a bit overtaxed. The 5.7 liter is a much better choice.
Especially important is the upgraded HVAc, especially with A/C. Most of the older vans got more ventilation ducts, rear heat and rear A/C when one chose the upgrade. Most older base-models HVAC is inadequate, and require vigorous use of pop-out rear windows etc just to get some decent airflow, especially to the rear seats.
If one pops for a conversion or passenger van, get the 3/4 ton model. All the extra seats, carpets, sound insulation adds weight. Throw in 4 adults and luggage, and the 1/2 ton versions wallow around too much. I think most conversion and passenger versions are 3/4 ton anyways.
The 3/4 ton version also gets you significantly upgraded brakes all around (at least on the older ones) with bigger rotors, calipers, drums and shoes.
Generally, I think you should get the best-condition van you can afford, regardless of G or E. Of course, the Express was a redesign intended to correct some of the shortcomings of the G. However, a well -equipped G compares quite well to an E van, and is cheaper and easier to fix, to boot.
moliva1568
02-18-2012, 10:08 AM
I really like full size vans - far more versatile than a pick-up truck, really cheap to buy used, cheap to fix, cheap to insure, especially the G-vans.
The Express vans are significantly more sophisticated and better than the G in terms of chassis, body,handling, HVAC, instrumentation, electrical, rust -resistance etc.
Alternately, the G-vans are very, very straightforward and easy to fix. It takes about 5 minutes to get the doghouse cover off, once its off, engine access is quite good. Surprisingly, the G-van is the easiest vehicle I've ever come across for engine and trans swaps. All the components are traditional, old-schooll GM, well made, and cheap to replace/service
The biggest difference is the E is separate chassis with a rubber-isolated body, like your Pontiac limo, where the G has an unusual heavy stamped steel frame welded to the body. Also the G's sheet metal seems to be heavier and thicker, because the entire body is structural. But it could just be the HSS that the E van is made with.
Anyways, the E van seems to have a bit more isolation from road noise and vibration, however, a properly upholstered and carpeted G van is luxury-car quiet, except for a bit of wind noise around the A-pillars.
The G-van has better forward visibility due to a lower dashboard and smaller hood than the E. Also the G-van appears to me to be larger inside, with a wider and longer cargo area, and a slightly lower floor.
The G-van came in a relatively -rare short wheel base (110"). These short G-vans are about 3 ft shorter than the standard ones, but are worth a look. They are significantly more manoeverable and somewhat easier to drive in urban settings. They are hundreds of lbs lighter, so the accelerate, stop and corner better, too.
The E van never came in such a short version.
The G-van dates back to late-1970 but was steadily upgraded over the years. Most of the upgrades centered around the transmission, electronic engine and trans controls, upgraded dashboards, instruments and HVAC.So, be prepared, if you look at older vans, you may be faced with non-overdrive transmissions, carburetors and (no kidding) instrument clusters out of a Chevette!!
If you choose a G-van, get the newest one you can find ('96 was the last year). I prefer the '94 to '96, with the drivers side airbag.
Also, try to get as many options as you can. Any 6-cyl engine is a bit overtaxed. The 5.7 liter is a much better choice.
Especially important is the upgraded HVAc, especially with A/C. Most of the older vans got more ventilation ducts, rear heat and rear A/C when one chose the upgrade. Most older base-models HVAC is inadequate, and require vigorous use of pop-out rear windows etc just to get some decent airflow, especially to the rear seats.
If one pops for a conversion or passenger van, get the 3/4 ton model. All the extra seats, carpets, sound insulation adds weight. Throw in 4 adults and luggage, and the 1/2 ton versions wallow around too much. I think most conversion and passenger versions are 3/4 ton anyways.
The 3/4 ton version also gets you significantly upgraded brakes all around (at least on the older ones) with bigger rotors, calipers, drums and shoes.
Generally, I think you should get the best-condition van you can afford, regardless of G or E. Of course, the Express was a redesign intended to correct some of the shortcomings of the G. However, a well -equipped G compares quite well to an E van, and is cheaper and easier to fix, to boot.
You never fail to give me a great and thorough answer Magicrat. Thank you for that. Now, i've purchased my van, a 1991 G20 Conversion van. I just posted a thread about a coolant leak i'm trying to solve. As for 5 minute removal of the dog house, that may be after a couple of tries (for me that is). i had to take off the passenger seat to get that cover off.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/IMG_1052.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/IMG_1051.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/IMG_1050.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/IMG_1049.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/IMG_1053.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/Van/1238E41A-8837-47C9-BE3F-2291B209F6DC_16.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/Van/1238E41A-8837-47C9-BE3F-2291B209F6DC_11.jpg
The Express vans are significantly more sophisticated and better than the G in terms of chassis, body,handling, HVAC, instrumentation, electrical, rust -resistance etc.
Alternately, the G-vans are very, very straightforward and easy to fix. It takes about 5 minutes to get the doghouse cover off, once its off, engine access is quite good. Surprisingly, the G-van is the easiest vehicle I've ever come across for engine and trans swaps. All the components are traditional, old-schooll GM, well made, and cheap to replace/service
The biggest difference is the E is separate chassis with a rubber-isolated body, like your Pontiac limo, where the G has an unusual heavy stamped steel frame welded to the body. Also the G's sheet metal seems to be heavier and thicker, because the entire body is structural. But it could just be the HSS that the E van is made with.
Anyways, the E van seems to have a bit more isolation from road noise and vibration, however, a properly upholstered and carpeted G van is luxury-car quiet, except for a bit of wind noise around the A-pillars.
The G-van has better forward visibility due to a lower dashboard and smaller hood than the E. Also the G-van appears to me to be larger inside, with a wider and longer cargo area, and a slightly lower floor.
The G-van came in a relatively -rare short wheel base (110"). These short G-vans are about 3 ft shorter than the standard ones, but are worth a look. They are significantly more manoeverable and somewhat easier to drive in urban settings. They are hundreds of lbs lighter, so the accelerate, stop and corner better, too.
The E van never came in such a short version.
The G-van dates back to late-1970 but was steadily upgraded over the years. Most of the upgrades centered around the transmission, electronic engine and trans controls, upgraded dashboards, instruments and HVAC.So, be prepared, if you look at older vans, you may be faced with non-overdrive transmissions, carburetors and (no kidding) instrument clusters out of a Chevette!!
If you choose a G-van, get the newest one you can find ('96 was the last year). I prefer the '94 to '96, with the drivers side airbag.
Also, try to get as many options as you can. Any 6-cyl engine is a bit overtaxed. The 5.7 liter is a much better choice.
Especially important is the upgraded HVAc, especially with A/C. Most of the older vans got more ventilation ducts, rear heat and rear A/C when one chose the upgrade. Most older base-models HVAC is inadequate, and require vigorous use of pop-out rear windows etc just to get some decent airflow, especially to the rear seats.
If one pops for a conversion or passenger van, get the 3/4 ton model. All the extra seats, carpets, sound insulation adds weight. Throw in 4 adults and luggage, and the 1/2 ton versions wallow around too much. I think most conversion and passenger versions are 3/4 ton anyways.
The 3/4 ton version also gets you significantly upgraded brakes all around (at least on the older ones) with bigger rotors, calipers, drums and shoes.
Generally, I think you should get the best-condition van you can afford, regardless of G or E. Of course, the Express was a redesign intended to correct some of the shortcomings of the G. However, a well -equipped G compares quite well to an E van, and is cheaper and easier to fix, to boot.
You never fail to give me a great and thorough answer Magicrat. Thank you for that. Now, i've purchased my van, a 1991 G20 Conversion van. I just posted a thread about a coolant leak i'm trying to solve. As for 5 minute removal of the dog house, that may be after a couple of tries (for me that is). i had to take off the passenger seat to get that cover off.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/IMG_1052.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/IMG_1051.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/IMG_1050.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/IMG_1049.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/IMG_1053.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/Van/1238E41A-8837-47C9-BE3F-2291B209F6DC_16.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/livewire1568/Van/1238E41A-8837-47C9-BE3F-2291B209F6DC_11.jpg
MagicRat
02-18-2012, 02:02 PM
That's a super-nice van. Great score.
I'm sure you noticed the engine, and thus the entire doghouse cover is offset to the passenger side about an inch or so, for extra driver room. The doghouse cover clears the stock passenger seat when it being remove..... just barely, so I'm not surprised it won't clear your plush one.
I've looked at a couple of conversion vans for sale around here virtually identical to yours, but with blue or green-theme paint, instead of your dusty rose colour. I have a 1983 factory 8-passenger GMC van, but its much more basic than yours.
Like this:
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1994-Chevy-Conversion-Van-Starcaft-1600-00-OBO-W0QQAdIdZ268675359
However, I just bought another Cherokee project so my wallet has to recover before I buy another vehicle.
Yours looks really clean and a great cruiser. Let us know how the repairs go.
I'm sure you noticed the engine, and thus the entire doghouse cover is offset to the passenger side about an inch or so, for extra driver room. The doghouse cover clears the stock passenger seat when it being remove..... just barely, so I'm not surprised it won't clear your plush one.
I've looked at a couple of conversion vans for sale around here virtually identical to yours, but with blue or green-theme paint, instead of your dusty rose colour. I have a 1983 factory 8-passenger GMC van, but its much more basic than yours.
Like this:
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-1994-Chevy-Conversion-Van-Starcaft-1600-00-OBO-W0QQAdIdZ268675359
However, I just bought another Cherokee project so my wallet has to recover before I buy another vehicle.
Yours looks really clean and a great cruiser. Let us know how the repairs go.
moliva1568
02-18-2012, 02:08 PM
Thanks. I like that green one. The price looks good too but the "Needs TLC" disclaimer would've scared me away. Some of the graphics on the conversion vans are a bit too much for me. My wife liked the colors of this one so that was a done deal. We're supposed to be driving from NY to NV in two months so i'm trying to find anything wrong now before it shows up on the journey.
MagicRat
02-18-2012, 02:21 PM
Thanks. I like that green one. The price looks good too but the "Needs TLC" disclaimer would've scared me away. Some of the graphics on the conversion vans are a bit too much for me. My wife liked the colors of this one so that was a done deal. We're supposed to be driving from NY to NV in two months so i'm trying to find anything wrong now before it shows up on the journey.
That green one has been for sale for weeks now, so it must be scaring others away, too. Eventually I may low-ball it and get it cheap.
But really, these things are so easy to fix, there is almost nothing that a skilled do-it-yourselfer cannot do. Brakes, ball joints, suspension, steering, even transmission swaps all are easy and inexpensive, compared to other vehicles.
Make sure you have LT (light truck) tires on it. P-type (passenger car) tires of the correct size will fit but do not last long. The weight of the vans seems to overload them.
The graphics are a bit "busy" but they do make the van look longer and lower. Plain paint jobs on these vehicles make them look strange, like a slab-sided cargo van wearing a top-hat.
That green one has been for sale for weeks now, so it must be scaring others away, too. Eventually I may low-ball it and get it cheap.
But really, these things are so easy to fix, there is almost nothing that a skilled do-it-yourselfer cannot do. Brakes, ball joints, suspension, steering, even transmission swaps all are easy and inexpensive, compared to other vehicles.
Make sure you have LT (light truck) tires on it. P-type (passenger car) tires of the correct size will fit but do not last long. The weight of the vans seems to overload them.
The graphics are a bit "busy" but they do make the van look longer and lower. Plain paint jobs on these vehicles make them look strange, like a slab-sided cargo van wearing a top-hat.
moliva1568
02-18-2012, 02:28 PM
hopefully no big problems arise (no time soon anyway) and i am able to do it myself and for less. We were fortunate to get new LT tires in the deal.
Quick question, i'm trying to change the heater control valve and i'm having a hard time. is trying to reuse the hoses worth the aggravation? it doesn't seem like i'll be able to get it off with them and i'm guessing it's probably wise to just cut them off and get new ones.
Quick question, i'm trying to change the heater control valve and i'm having a hard time. is trying to reuse the hoses worth the aggravation? it doesn't seem like i'll be able to get it off with them and i'm guessing it's probably wise to just cut them off and get new ones.
MagicRat
02-18-2012, 02:30 PM
hopefully no big problems arise (no time soon anyway) and i am able to do it myself and for less. We were fortunate to get new LT tires in the deal.
Quick question, i'm trying to change the heater control valve and i'm having a hard time. is trying to reuse the hoses worth the aggravation? it doesn't seem like i'll be able to get it off with them and i'm guessing it's probably wise to just cut them off and get new ones.
I found your other thread and posted a reply. :)
Quick question, i'm trying to change the heater control valve and i'm having a hard time. is trying to reuse the hoses worth the aggravation? it doesn't seem like i'll be able to get it off with them and i'm guessing it's probably wise to just cut them off and get new ones.
I found your other thread and posted a reply. :)
DeltaP
02-18-2012, 07:11 PM
Good choice. Thats a beauty. I did alot of traveling in my brothers '95 G20 Explorer conversion van. Solid as a rock with the 5.7! Change the rear diff oil before ya travel and add some Lucas to it. Happy trails to ya!
mhall02
05-06-2012, 03:32 PM
This thread is a tad old but I'll chime in. I bought 2 years ago a 2003 Express 3500 15 passenger and really like it. We took the back seat out so we would have more room for stuff, so it will in theory seat 11. We arrived at child number 5 last year and it is great for hauling all the little people (4 still in car/booster seats), their friends, and in-laws on trips. I just started working on our church van last month, it is a '95 G30 15 passenger and there are some initial differences I see. The hood on the 2003 is longer and access to the water pump, shield, hoses and other odds and ends under the hood seems easier to get to than the G30. Our 6.0 V-8 seems peppier than the 5.7, but then again I haven't taken the '95 on the interstate (yet!). Our 3500 gets around 11-12 in town and 15-16 highway, not sure what the 5.7 gets but people don't get these for the MPG. The 2003 is OBD II so it might be able to trouble shoot problems down the road, we will see. The 6.0 does not have a cap and rotor, it has 1 coil per plug so I don't know if that is a plus or minus yet. I think the last year of the G vans it was OBD II ('96). To take the doghouse off the '03 you do have to remove the passenger seat (easy enough, only 4 nuts), and it looks the same way for the '95, I'll find out soon enough. I'll be doing some more work on the '95 later in the month so I might have some more input.
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