Well I thought I could finish it it a week or so, but with school and work I was wrong.

Here is Lieberman's skyline.
I am debating to put the red signal auto stripe.
Should I?

I am leaving off the sponser stickers and mat replace the HKS with "powered by Saenz Artworks" red logo to go with the stripe

What do you guys think.

Thanks for checking it out.

its baddd man, a little hard to see, is it on A1 paper? looks big. Are you gonna render it or anything??

keep it up

Well the camera is not that great.
It is drawn on smooth bristol paper.

I hope to have it finished soon.
It will be completely in color when I am done.

Thanks for the reply

nice trace....i can't wait 2 see it when its colored.:)

Originally posted by zyajzarc
nice trace....i can't wait 2 see it when its colored.:)


I looked at a photo, did not trace it.

:)

Hey that looks great!

Sorry but I don't like Craig Leiberman:mad:

Originally posted by asaenz
I looked at a photo, did not trace it.

WHOA!... pretty freaking good man!:D I really love those rims...i wish i could draw like that.. and some other people on here as well.. a lotta you guyz have a lotta talent!

did you caheckout my car art?:D

Do you have any tips on how to draw like that i want to start but i have no insperation to start:( :( :( :( :( i have all the tools but im sure i can't do it..
Maybe ill try but idk where to start


-RaceMySS

Please,no red stripe unless you were really drawing the real Signal skyline.

No "NOS" decals either please for the love of god.

That's what I think.

Thanks for the replies.

As for inspirations and instructions check out
How to Draw Cars like a Pro by Thom Taylor.

I know I mentioned it in my other thread but that is the book I used to learn.

I must admit I get discouraged and loose inpiration too but then I just think about how the car will look afterwords. This Skyline is very hard or should I say time consuming. There are so many lines to draw. I work a little at a time and then stop when I notice I am rushing or getting tired of the car.

This might sound funny but play classical music or music with no words and turn the TV off. It really helps your brain focus on the art work.

Also check out "The new drawing on the right side of the brain" from your library by Betty Edwards. Those that are in middle and high school I am sure your art teacher is using her methods.

Ghostchild, you are right about the stripe. I heard that from critics abuot his car. Why did he copy the signal stripe yadda yadda. That is cool. I really like the stripe. I don't know Lieberman personally so I cannot form an opinion about him. My brother who is very much into skylines said the same thing about the 3 nos cans and all the stickers.

I just got back from Japan last summer and saw a few skylines GTRs none of them had crazy body kits or stickers on them. I even went to Nismo checked out there Skylines. It was cool

I think I will keep the stripe and but my own logo on it. My next skyline will be more stock looking. This is just for practice and fun anyway.

But if people don't like riced out skylines I won't do them (for sale)because I want to sell prints that people will wont to buy.

I appreciate your opinions.

asaenz

a question about your drawing asaenz...

what size paper do you use. (roughly in inches)

the line quality seems very good for a sketch, is this a trace of the ''original'' sketch?? sorry if im not making sence. basically my technique is to do the sketch (by looking at the photo) then to neeten the whole thing up, i trace my sketch onto a new sheet of paper...

kinda like this (sorry my scanner seems to want to tilt everything i try to scan, so the two pics aren't the same angle...

first pic is the original sketch, second pic is after tracing the sketch..
This is the ford street ka. sorry i hadn't finished all the fine details when i did the scan

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/282487streetka.JPG

just for comparison, this is a pic of the real thing (this is NOT the photo that i worked from. the photo i worked from is in a magazine, so i cant be bothered to scan it it)

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,212402,00.jpg

[QUOTE]Originally posted by simdel1
[B]a question about your drawing asaenz...

what size paper do you use. (roughly in inches)

the line quality seems very good for a sketch, is this a trace of the ''original'' sketch?? sorry if im not making sence. basically my technique is to do the sketch (by looking at the photo) then to neeten the whole thing up, i trace my sketch onto a new sheet of paper...

kinda like this (sorry my scanner seems to want to tilt everything i try to scan, so the two pics aren't the same angle...

first pic is the original sketch, second pic is after tracing the sketch..
This is the ford street ka. sorry i hadn't finished all the fine details when i did the scan

Hey Simdel1

I use 14x17 smooth bristol 100lb paper almost like paper plate thickness. Also get a huge drawing board (brown with metal clips) from your art store. Buy artist masking tape and tape the paper to the board. That way you can easily draw any place in the house. Also you need good lighting very good lighting to see the light sketch. I use a lamp set up on a box. I draw on the floor. You can then rotate your drawing board to adjust for lighting. I have a drafting table on order.

You need to use 2b lead .5mm mechanical. This lead will allow you to draw the car (lightly) and then lightly erase with a needable eraser by blotting it so you have a nice faded line work like my picture above. Then go over the light faded drawing with prisma color pencils using elipses (for wheels and tires) and french curves for the body (flexible french curve also) That gives the crisp lines (blue) that you see on my car.

I do not do a trace of my sketch (transfer to new paper) I use the original sketch (light fade) and go over it with the color pencils.

Check out that book "How to draw cars like a pro" from your (county) library. If they do not have it tell them you want them to get it. They will get it. You really need to read that book.
Or you can buy it for 14$ at amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0760300100/qid%3D1051638425/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-5575793-7276865

Hope that helps

asaenz

Originally posted by asaenz
[QUOTE]Originally posted by simdel1
[B]a question about your drawing asaenz...

what size paper do you use. (roughly in inches)

the line quality seems very good for a sketch, is this a trace of the ''original'' sketch?? sorry if im not making sence. basically my technique is to do the sketch (by looking at the photo) then to neeten the whole thing up, i trace my sketch onto a new sheet of paper...

kinda like this (sorry my scanner seems to want to tilt everything i try to scan, so the two pics aren't the same angle...

first pic is the original sketch, second pic is after tracing the sketch..
This is the ford street ka. sorry i hadn't finished all the fine details when i did the scan

Hey Simdel1

I use 14x17 smooth bristol 100lb paper almost like paper plate thickness. Also get a huge drawing board (brown with metal clips) from your art store. Buy artist masking tape and tape the paper to the board. That way you can easily draw any place in the house. Also you need good lighting very good lighting to see the light sketch. I use a lamp set up on a box. I draw on the floor. You can then rotate your drawing board to adjust for lighting. I have a drafting table on order.

You need to use 2b lead .5mm mechanical. This lead will allow you to draw the car (lightly) and then lightly erase with a needable eraser by blotting it so you have a nice faded line work like my picture above. Then go over the light faded drawing with prisma color pencils using elipses (for wheels and tires) and french curves for the body (flexible french curve also) That gives the crisp lines (blue) that you see on my car.

I do not do a trace of my sketch (transfer to new paper) I use the original sketch (light fade) and go over it with the color pencils.

Check out that book "How to draw cars like a pro" from your (county) library. If they do not have it tell them you want them to get it. They will get it. You really need to read that book.
Or you can buy it for 14$ at amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0760300100/qid%3D1051638425/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-5575793-7276865

Hope that helps

asaenz

yea, thats basically what i do, but i prefer the feel of a wood pencil.

i have that book too, been using it for about 2 years now..

here is the finished version of the street ka...id like your oppinion on it.

jpg quality is a bit crap..

The Ka looks really good. Remember Taylor's box 123 rules. Also (now this is a general rule) shadows should not come at the viewer like at the bottom rear of your car. That might have been in your photo. If it was the photographer missed an accepted rule which is to have the sun behind you while taking a picture of a car.

Good point on the wooden pencil. I should have said that mechanical is what I prefer. People do not have to use that.

I have another tip that may help you. It is not discussed in great detail in Thom Taylor's book.

It is called the Grid technique. It was developed by Albrecht Durer I believe and was used by other master artists in the past and is used today.

Basically you draw a grid on the reference photo and then draw a grid to scale on your paper (lightly) then draw the car and erase the grid. You can scale up your drawing by going from 1 cm squares on the photo to 2 or 3 cm. squares on your paper.

Now some artist use modified versions of this. Like Betty Edwards whom uses just 4 quadrant grid. I use many quadrants like 10 squares across and perhaps 4-6 from top to bottom. This technique is explained in great detail in the following book

Lifelike Portraits from Photographs by Lee Hammond.

In Betty Edwards book (The new drawing on the right side of the brain) I am learning to draw with out grids. I personally believe there is nothing wrong with grids but they can be more time consuming like 30 minutes. But what is 30 minutes compared to 12-15 hours

The bottom line is cars are made by machines and thus are perfect in proportion and size so tools must be used in my opinion to get the same effect of perfectness.

I have found that the more cars I do the better I get and learn. Keep on drawing amigo.

asaenz

Wow I guess I read a lot of books :)

Originally posted by asaenz
The Ka looks really good. Remember Taylor's box 123 rules. Also (now this is a general rule) shadows should not come at the viewer like at the bottom rear of your car. That might have been in your photo. If it was the photographer missed an accepted rule which is to have the sun behind you while taking a picture of a car.

Good point on the wooden pencil. I should have said that mechanical is what I prefer. People do not have to use that.

I have another tip that may help you. It is not discussed in great detail in Thom Taylor's book.

It is called the Grid technique. It was developed by Albrecht Durer I believe and was used by other master artists in the past and is used today.

Basically you draw a grid on the reference photo and then draw a grid to scale on your paper (lightly) then draw the car and erase the grid. You can scale up your drawing by going from 1 cm squares on the photo to 2 or 3 cm. squares on your paper.

Now some artist use modified versions of this. Like Betty Edwards whom uses just 4 quadrant grid. I use many quadrants like 10 squares across and perhaps 4-6 from top to bottom. This technique is explained in great detail in the following book

Lifelike Portraits from Photographs by Lee Hammond.

In Betty Edwards book (The new drawing on the right side of the brain) I am learning to draw with out grids. I personally believe there is nothing wrong with grids but they can be more time consuming like 30 minutes. But what is 30 minutes compared to 12-15 hours

The bottom line is cars are made by machines and thus are perfect in proportion and size so tools must be used in my opinion to get the same effect of perfectness.

I have found that the more cars I do the better I get and learn. Keep on drawing amigo.

asaenz

Wow I guess I read a lot of books :)

yep, the shadow was in the photo. the photographer must have thought that the shadow didnt loose too much of the detail., maybe.

i used to use the grid technique. but when i got used to usinga single point of reference for basing all proportions off, i found it quicker to not do the grid. and IMO it is still near as damn it perfect. maybe i should try it again and see if it makes any difference.

the main problem i have is that i have hardly drawn any cars in the last few years. about 2 years ago i had the chance of drawing cars FOR school. i learned so much in those couple of months. since then i have had so many qualifications to concentrate on that i havent really had time.

just for a futher comparison ill add the original photo.

now i can see all the mistakes that i did. i did intentionally make sure that it was a lot lighter than the original so that it looked more ''real'', and i changed the background to something less ''busy''. not bad really considering the photo is about 3inches by 4 inches, and the drawing is 12 inches by 8. i will try the grid method next time though to get rid of the bad proportions.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/998696kacomparo.JPG

Simdel 1

You are right that car is near perfect. Awesome. I say stay with the single point of reference you got that nailed down.

I think perhaps some elipse tools will help like the sizes recommended by Thom Taylor for your rims.

Can you offer any tips using the single point of reference. That is amazing, I am in that chapter right now in Betty's book. That is exacly what she talks about.

Do you just use your pencil for measuring? Give an example if you can.

Thanks Simdel1 for your help with the single point of reference.

I am really amazed with your skill with out grids, awesome.

asaenz

Originally posted by asaenz
Simdel 1

You are right that car is near perfect. Awesome. I say stay with the single point of reference you got that nailed down.

I think perhaps some elipse tools will help like the sizes recommended by Thom Taylor for your rims.

Can you offer any tips using the single point of reference. That is amazing, I am in that chapter right now in Betty's book. That is exacly what she talks about.

Do you just use your pencil for measuring? Give an example if you can.

Thanks Simdel1 for your help with the single point of reference.

I am really amazed with your skill with out grids, awesome.

asaenz

thankyou very much asaenz!!!:D

iv been looking around for those elipses for quite some time. i think ill have to look harder.

the single point of reference is quite simple:
i spend some time making sure that the nearest wheel (the rear wheel on the street ka drawing) is proportionally correct. on the street ka i think the width of the wheel was half of the height of the wheel. then using the pencil, i measured each major area (like the placing of the wheel arches/the front wheel/ height of the car/ height of rear lights etc) in units of either wheel widths or wheel heights on the original photo. then transfer the measurement to the sketch. Most are not exactly a whole number of wheel widths, so its just used as an estimate. if i was doing this properly i would use a ruler and a calculator, and get the number of wheel widths to an exact decimal value. besides, im sure the method described in your book will be more accuarate than my method. let me know what differences there are if you have time. thanx

i hope i have explained it well enough. if not, i will do ''progress photos'' if you like.

good luck with the skyline:cool: :ylsuper

Originally posted by ghostchild316
Hey that looks great!

Sorry but I don't like Craig Leiberman:mad:

Arggggghhhhhhhhhh I hate that mofo!

Originally posted by RyanGiorgio


Arggggghhhhhhhhhh I hate that mofo!

Why do people hate Craig Lieberman?

Originally posted by simdel1


thankyou very much asaenz!!!:D

iv been looking around for those elipses for quite some time. i think ill have to look harder.

the single point of reference is quite simple:
i spend some time making sure that the nearest wheel (the rear wheel on the street ka drawing) is proportionally correct. on the street ka i think the width of the wheel was half of the height of the wheel. then using the pencil, i measured each major area (like the placing of the wheel arches/the front wheel/ height of the car/ height of rear lights etc) in units of either wheel widths or wheel heights on the original photo. then transfer the measurement to the sketch. Most are not exactly a whole number of wheel widths, so its just used as an estimate. if i was doing this properly i would use a ruler and a calculator, and get the number of wheel widths to an exact decimal value. besides, im sure the method described in your book will be more accuarate than my method. let me know what differences there are if you have time. thanx

i hope i have explained it well enough. if not, i will do ''progress photos'' if you like.

good luck with the skyline:cool: :ylsuper

Thanks for the tips. I will let you know what is in the book. Your post makes sense to me. Do some progress photos and start a new thread so other folks might take interest. It seems that people do not like the Lieb. Skyline. Oh well I put so much work in it so far I am going to finish it. I will have a progress pic. posted Wednesday.

Oh about the ellipses.

Check this out

http://www.artstuff.net/timely_ellipse_templates.htm

It has been 3 years since I bought mine. I think I purchased them from the people below. Mine are made by Timely. They are perfect. I would perhaps get a set that goes up to 3 in. Mine go up to 2.5 in. Sometimes I wish I had larger sizes. As far as degrees get the ones listed in Thom's book.

http://www.timelytemplates.com/f_ellipse/Tellipse.htm

asaenz

asaenz Do you know any good site on how to get started on this?

Thanks


-RaceMySS

just wondering, if you find pictures... online, or whatever.. and print them... and draw from that..

cause im AMAZED BY both ur work

asaenz Do you know any good site on how to get started on this?

Sorry I do not know of any sites that show/tell instructions on drawing cars. All I have is recommended books. At amazon.com you can get Thom's book and another book on cars for 22$ (together)

How to Draw Cars Like a Pro by Thom Taylor $13.97
Draw Cars (Draw) by Doug DuBosque $8.99

For in depth detail on how to draw period check out the following books.

The new Drawing on the Right side of the Brain by Betty Edwards
Lifelike Portraits from Photographs by Lee Hammond

Both of the listed books above will help tremendously and they cover stuff that is not is Thom's book. His book asumes you can pretty much draw allready.

Check them out from your county library.

I am thinking of putting together a HOW to for this forum or a FAQ.

Originally posted by Integra14
just wondering, if you find pictures... online, or whatever.. and print them... and draw from that..

cause im AMAZED BY both ur work

I do use pictures from the internet, magazines like super street and sport compact. In the case of internet photos I print them. In the case of magazines I cut them out and use them for reference. This year I will be attending a couple of car shows to take my own photos for reference, like NOPI and SuperChevy shows and perhaps a Mustang show.

I may write my own book someday, after I improve myself on the topic of cars. I believe a better book can be written about drawing cars.

Thanks
asaenz

Well here is an update on the car.

The line drawing is complete. I just need to add the marker and pastel.
I cannot wait to see how it looks.

It is looking amazing. Definitely keep us updated.

blimey...looks like you spend a lot more time on the drawing than me asaenz. im too impatient to get it perfect :rolleyes:

lookin good

WOW! Looks perfect!

I've been looking at these drawings for a long time and they are just UNBELIEVEABLE. I have been drawing for years without much shading and no color.

Does anyone have any color tips? I use chalk but I dont get good reflections. Help!

Originally posted by GTmike400
I've been looking at these drawings for a long time and they are just UNBELIEVEABLE. I have been drawing for years without much shading and no color.

Does anyone have any color tips? I use chalk but I dont get good reflections. Help!

markers!!

markers for the harsh reflections. chalk/pastel for the graduated tones.

i sugest you get Thom Taylors book ''how to draw cars like pro''. it explains everything much better than i can

Originally posted by GTmike400
I've been looking at these drawings for a long time and they are just UNBELIEVEABLE. I have been drawing for years without much shading and no color.

Does anyone have any color tips? I use chalk but I dont get good reflections. Help!

Simdel1, that is some good advice, get Thom Taylors book. :)

How to draw cars

It is so cheap to from amazon.com. I think 15$

I have found practice, practice, practice is good too. My messed up cars pile is getting larger :)

Probably for the better anyway, since knowone really cares for Mr. Lieberman

Well, the Lieb R-34 has joined the scrap pile of lessons learned.

When using the prisma markers do not let them soak to long on the paper, they bleed nicely. Ofcourse I knew this befor from doing the other cars. However the major mess up was trying to overlap two different color markers in an attempt to come up with the shade of blue that I wanted. Do not try to overlap markers to get a different color. These are not paints. Oh well. Stuppid me

I could have fixed it in photoshop but I wanted a nice original, so I just counted my lesson learned and put it away.

No frets here because I have already started another skyline that will be better. I am well into that project. Its a Nismo GTR :)

Some advice don't let messups get you down, just start another work and learn from before.

Simdel1 did you see my post in this thread about where to get the ellipses?

al

yes, thanks al, i did have a look. but i have a lot of exams coming up so i dont have time to buy any, let alone use them. i will use them when i am back in the market though.

i have also had that problem with layering markers, but with the ford ka that i did i had to layer the same red marker over itself a number of times. it just wasn't red enough. i knew about the bleeding so i just waited about 5 minuits or so for the first lot of marker to dry completely, then i could safely put the next layer of marker over it...and then i waited till that dryed completly, then added another layer...etc until i got the colour i wanted. it worked:flash:

Originally posted by simdel1
yes, thanks al, i did have a look. but i have a lot of exams coming up so i dont have time to buy any, let alone use them. i will use them when i am back in the market though.

i have also had that problem with layering markers, but with the ford ka that i did i had to layer the same red marker over itself a number of times. it just wasn't red enough. i knew about the bleeding so i just waited about 5 minuits or so for the first lot of marker to dry completely, then i could safely put the next layer of marker over it...and then i waited till that dryed completly, then added another layer...etc until i got the colour i wanted. it worked:flash:

That was my mistake. I should correct myself and say layering markers while they are still wet is not a good idea :)

I have found that I have to go over with the same color marker to get an even color on the paper also. See there is a lot more Thom could have said about applying color and actual technique. Perhaps I will write a book :)


Hope you do well on your tests. I had two finals today.

al

hey asaenz do you just sketch or do you sometimes use a ruler?

Originally posted by WhiteBlur
hey asaenz do you just sketch or do you sometimes use a ruler?

WhiteBlur,

I do both. First I sketch the car no tools, except my pencil and needable eraser, and classical music blasting :)

Then I go over the pencil sketch with color pencil, using "rulers" actually they are french curves and ellipses but the same idea.

I use the grid technique at the begining and I need a ruler to draw my grid. Check out the thread if you haven't on grid techs.

al

ook cool

aseanz it looks amazing! we have some real good talent here

Originally posted by ChopinPorkChop
aseanz it looks amazing! we have some real good talent here

Thanks ChopinPorkChop

I am trying really hard to fine tune my skills so I can sell some prints.
But with work, college, and married life it is hard to find all the time.
I will get there.

al

Originally posted by ghostchild316
Hey that looks great!

Sorry but I don't like Craig Leiberman:mad:

I SECOND THAT!!:D

Originally posted by asaenz


Why do people hate Craig Lieberman?

He bought the beautiful Motorex BlackBird skyline and turned it into some rice machine.

asaenz could you post up the drawing anyway w/ stain? you never know you could flip it into something else "artsy fartsy". oh and something else ive been meaning to ask you. how in the hell do you use a french curve? i have a few and if i remember correctly thom taylor doesnt get too deep into that in his book, ive tried multiple times with very unsatisfactory results. are you supposed to turn it while drawing or what?
Josh

Originally posted by Phaturbo
asaenz could you post up the drawing anyway w/ stain? you never know you could flip it into something else "artsy fartsy". oh and something else ive been meaning to ask you. how in the hell do you use a french curve? i have a few and if i remember correctly thom taylor doesnt get too deep into that in his book, ive tried multiple times with very unsatisfactory results. are you supposed to turn it while drawing or what?
Josh

You are right, Josh he does not give any instructions at all. That is a major fallacy in his book, no offense to Thom. I plan on discussing the french curve in my Nismo R-34 tutorial. I had to figure that out on my own. If I write a book I will definitely make it complete and discuss curve in more detail :)


al

why don't you do your skyline darker, so people can see it better. By the way your Skyline is good.

hey man, thats amazing, a few questions, do you use brisol board? if noot, then what do you use? what brand name of the markers do you use? and thats it

very nice, i luv it, cant wait to see it done

oh i also draw without a grid, i dont got any recent drawings tho, ill try to get suum soon and post em

He bought the beautiful Motorex BlackBird skyline and turned it into some rice machine.

rice machine my ass...its still just as fast, if not faster. read a magazine or something before you try to put someone down.

rice machine my ass...its still just as fast, if not faster. read a magazine or something before you try to put someone down.

yeah. What he said.

damn good skyline ;)

sorry for bringing this old post up but did u ever finish this car asaenz? if u did, id like to see it. i think ur front wheel looks a little crooked though. but u can barley tell its so smooth and perfectly laid out.

hey man, thats amazing, a few questions, do you use brisol board? if noot, then what do you use? what brand name of the markers do you use? and thats it

very nice, i luv it, cant wait to see it done

oh i also draw without a grid, i dont got any recent drawings tho, ill try to get suum soon and post em

Hi SeCrEtMoDdEr,

Yes I use Bristol Smooth and Vellum but not board. It was 100lb paper.
I use Prisma color markers. I draw w/o grids and with grids. For cars I mostly draw with grids because I want the proportions exact. Does it require more skill to draw w/o grids, I think so. But grids are just one of the tools people use to get to the final result. There is a lot of controversy between artists about grids. I really don't see what all the hoop-blah is. Grids are just a tool. And yes artist trace too....:)

sorry for bringing this old post up but did u ever finish this car asaenz? if u did, id like to see it. i think ur front wheel looks a little crooked though. but u can barley tell its so smooth and perfectly laid out.

Good eye Jordanmc.

I checked the car out again an you are correct I got some camber issues :) Well the car was scrapped a long time ago.

I have some paintings in the workings (Enzo and Shelby Cobra). I will post them. I still owe this forum a promise I made a long time ago, tutorial on drawing headlights and just for kicks I will be doing a tutorial on rendering chrome. I have a S15 in the works with bling-bling rims...hee hee :) School is about to let out, so let the drawings begin :)

Take car
alfred

nice asaenz, yeah i know sort of how to do chrome thanks to thoms book hehe. i cant wait to see ur paintings and the tut- that will be tei---ght! so u mean by scrapped u threw it out? i would have really liked to see the finished car. maybe if i get a scanner for christmas, everone can finally see my work...

MAN its buetiful but uve been on this proect for ages now whats going on????

It's been ruined by a marker stain. Plus, this is really old, don't you think you should post in the new threads so you save the rest of us the agony of going through everything again?

It's been ruined by a marker stain. Plus, this is really old, don't you think you should post in the new threads so you save the rest of us the agony of going through everything again?



:werd: